[p]I've been out of the raiding scene for a while. I really haven't done much of EoF. Anyways, I was doing HoS last Friday and a comment was made about my DPS. I focus a lot on healing and took MII healing because Necro's couldn't heal for the longest time and that was something that I wanted to do. So when a caster is going to die on the next AoE or the MT or anyother peron is low on health, I like to heal. I just really like the heal > tap mechanism. I also rez people because I think, although it's the worst rez, it's got a 25 yard range which just makes it faster than others. This is great for getting the MT up.[/p][p]So, I quit healing and rezzing and tried to dps. It was pretty much the same as when I was doing other things. This made me frustrated and I seem to doing better when I used to raid(Pre-EoF). The funny thing is that I'm not doing anything different. I start off with swarm pets(2), DoTs(2) then rot > tap > rot. Then like alternate spells like Consume/TP/LM between the rot > tap > rots until coil and bats wears off and that's pretty much the cycle.[/p][p]So basically, I am doing rot > tap >rot the most while keeping dots and swarm pets on. Now I don't time the swarm pets after AoE which is something I should probably do. I went with STR(crits) and STA(AE resistant tank pet) so I don't know if this is the best build. I really hate recasting pets and see it as waste of time. I only have 58 AP and I don't know if that is the problem. If it is, I probably shouldn't raid until I get 100.[/p][p]So my questions for the raiding necros:[/p][p]1) Do you ever focus on utility or mainly DPS. Should I play a healer if I like to rez and heal?[/p][p]2) What is your spells cycle for maximizing DPS? Is mine way off? Is the tank pet the reason? I tried the mage pet and really didnt see a button for ranged but I heard there is one? Would I be better off with the mage?[/p][p]3) Should I care about DPS if I enjoy healing and rezzing? It didn't seem to make that much difference in DPS because maybe the pets, dots, and taps, I imagine, are doing most of the damage.[/p][p]4) Should I call it a wash and quit raiding until I get 100 APs because then I can have an AE resistant scout pet and more damage bonuses? [/p][p]- Thanks in Advanced[/p]
the mage pet is automaticly in ranged attack mode. it will stick right next to you and nuke away. on a RARE occasion it will get wonky and go run in but its very rare now.
Omni@Najena wrote: 1) DPS should always be your main focus. giving out hearts is important too but not normally during combat do that before the fight and while you fight let dirges etc. focus on rezzes. 2) mage pet should default to staying at range and yet there is a huge difference between tank and mage pet DPS. 3) DPS is job #1 for a necro. 4) just get LB as quick as you can but you can raid effectively without it though you won't be doing the DPS you could be doing. the AE avoid isn't that bif of a deal on most fights only a few actually require you to even use it in EoF.
[p]These are interesting questions I think. I think ALOT of people, not just necroes, get hung up on a DPS>>everything on the planet mode. To address your questions with my opinion...[/p][p]"1) Do you ever focus on utility or mainly DPS. Should I play a healer if I like to rez and heal?"[/p][p]The great thing about playing a necro is you can kind of do both. Something we have happen, often, is that if someone goes down in a raid, it is often best to have a non-healer rez someone, as the healers need to stay on top of MT, or whatever. And, you can rez from a reasonable amount of distance, so you don't need to run all over creation while you are 'looking' for their corpse. [/p][p]"2) What is your spells cycle for maximizing DPS? Is mine way off? Is the tank pet the reason? I tried the mage pet and really didnt see a button for ranged but I heard there is one? Would I be better off with the mage?"[/p][p]You'd probably be better off with the mage. Especially since you like to utility, and might be bouncing your target around alot, your mage pet shouldn't have to be babysat much as it just whales away. My guess is, regardless of what DPS you were doing, if people see your tank pet out, and they comment on your DPS, what they are really saying is, "Put your mage pet out". Now, as for your cycle, I have goofed around coming up with a 'perfect' cycle, and have yet to see anything a whole lot better than anything else, as long as you are active. If I was wanting to heal/utility like you are saying, a good routine would be Coil/Horde/Gravecaller/utility (lets say heal)/abate/rot/pestilence/consume/utility. If Horde/Gravecaller/Consume all down (and it happens alot), a routine of Coil/Pestilence/Rot/Abate/Rot/Pestilence/Rot/Abate/Rot/Pestilence/you get the idea is about as good as anything. Any of the rots could be exchanged for your utility spell. [/p][p]"3) Should I care about DPS if I enjoy healing and rezzing? It didn't seem to make that much difference in DPS because maybe the pets, dots, and taps, I imagine, are doing most of the damage."[/p][p]Well, you should always care some about DPS, but you'll do it kind of by accident if you send in pet, cast your swarm and coil and abate. [/p][p]"4) Should I call it a wash and quit raiding until I get 100 APs because then I can have an AE resistant scout pet and more damage bonuses? "[/p][p]Highly likely you will use the mage pet, so you'd probably be better off improving that one. The casting decrease time of pestilence will help as well. [/p][p] [/p][p]To be absolutely honest, raids are likely better off with someone focusing on utility, and still doing moderate DPS, than a necro who max's DPS for himself/herself. If UtilityNecro does zonewide DPS of (Made up numbers) 750 DPS, and MaxDmgNecro does zonewide of 1500, it is highly unlikely that the extra 750DPS the MaxdmgNecro did saved the raid in any significant way regardless. (And doing double the damage is kind of extreme, but you get the drift) However, I have seen quite a few wipes that would've been avoided if someone tossed in a 1k heal every 15 seconds, or even once a fight. [/p]
[p]I'm personally not too concerned about DPS. Most of my AA lines focus on my scout pet, which I do use mainly in raids. It gets knocked out here and there from AOE's. Here and there i can get in top spots of the parse, but I do throw a heal on the MT if he needs it. Also rez, I'd rather see the healers... healing.. [/p][p] [/p][p]1) Do you ever focus on utility or mainly DPS. Should I play a healer if I like to rez and heal?[/p][p] I usually do it when needed. If I feel that extra heal would help in the fight. I almost always try and rez, Less real healer downtime to switch targets and get back to healing.[/p][p]2) What is your spells cycle for maximizing DPS? Is mine way off? Is the tank pet the reason? I tried the mage pet and really didnt see a button for ranged but I heard there is one? Would I be better off with the mage?[/p][p]Tank pet would definately affect your DPS, I don't like the mage pet. I rarely ever use it. I focus on the scout pet. [/p][p]Scout pet with AA's to help the pets abilities. Blighted Horde >> Awaken Grave >> Undead Tide (if up) >> Single target dot >> aoe dot >> Loathesome mark >> Abate Life >> Infernal Cloud>> Word of Force [/p][p]3) Should I care about DPS if I enjoy healing and rezzing? It didn't seem to make that much difference in DPS because maybe the pets, dots, and taps, I imagine, are doing most of the damage.[/p][p]Personally I don't. If I make the top of the parse cool, but it doesn't hurt my feeling if I'm not in the top five. Usually between recast timers it's pretty easy to throw in a heal. Rezzing takes the longest.[/p][p]4) Should I call it a wash and quit raiding until I get 100 APs because then I can have an AE resistant scout pet and more damage bonuses? [/p][p]I have 71 AA's and mines not yet (AE resistant). :-? Personally I say, have fun. It takes time to build up your 'best way' to do things.[/p]
[p]Thanks for the replies so far.[/p][p]I'm trying to wrap my head around the mage pet being autoranged... Do I still do pet attack to get him going and he never goes in? So, if I stay out of ranged, I won't be recasting it after an AoE? Or, does he start attacking whatever I cast on?[/p]
Omni@Najena wrote: [p]1. I do what I need to do on raids. Main job is DPS. Dirges and Paladins should rez in most cases, unless you are told you are on rez duty. If I can and it is needed, I rez. I rarely heal....a good raid set up should have enough healers where yours are not needed except in the more rare cases. Hearts is our main job after DPS, but use discretion. Some people ask for a heart at 50% power with a raid mob at 5% during burn down phase. Ignore those people lol [/p][p]2. You will need to experiment on your spell cycle. Some mobs die fast so you have one cycle you use as opposed to the longer fights. Also many have large AOE's so use the timing of those to know when to shoot off your swarm pets for the most damage from them. A troub with Jesters cap is your best friend when casting Tide or Lifeburn (cuts down recast timers by 40% i think)[/p][p]3. If you enjoy healing and rezzing, do not play a raiding necro, make a priest. You may need to heal or rez, but as I stated above, in a good raid set up, your need to do so will be negligible.[/p][p]4. You do not need 100aa to raid. That is not saying having a lot of AA won't help or make you better, you can still do a great job DPSing without being maxed out. [/p]
Omni talk to me ingame. Good to see you back. I'll explain some stuff to you and give you a good aa setup.
[p]One thing that will also affect your DPS to a fair degree (especially on those level 75 mobs) is the quality of your pet. AD 1/AD3/Master all make a difference.[/p][p]As far as utility/dps is concerned I like to hedge by bets both ways. I'll happily throw out my debuffs, spot heal or rez if required. Also will drop a heart if required but like others have said prefer to do that in the prepping stage before engaging the mob.[/p][p]But if the raid is well setup and everything is going smoothly let the classes do what they do best (healers heal etc) and just concentrate on burning.[/p][p] If you want to double check you mage pet is set to ranged and your ui doesnt have a button then simply type /pet ranged. And of course /pet melee for the melee pets.[/p][p] [/p][p]Sark.[/p]
So far from what I have tested I have come up with a nice perma-casting routine for my necro. I have the full rotting line with Lifeburn and this is how I go: 1. Open with your dumb fires or debuffs as you please. 2. Rot, coil, pestilence, rot, abate, rinse.. repeat With the rotting line you are able to perma-cast through that step 2 at all times and if I want to use a debuff or utility spell or something of the sort I will usually leave out Abate as I like to have DoTs going at all times.. In other words Rot, coil, pestilence, rot, utility, and then start over with a normal #2 step. Unfortunately I have not raided much with my necro and I am only lvl 58, but with the setup above I have been able to keep a constant 500-600dps just on heroic short fight mobs during my usual pick up groups. (mind you most of my spells are only adept1 except my mage pet which is M1.. but I am still on my Grim Thulian). Don't know if that helps but it seems to be a nice casting sequence that leaves me with no "hmm what do I cast now" time meaning I am always dishing out some type of damage.
[p]"I'm trying to wrap my head around the mage pet being autoranged... Do I still do pet attack to get him going and he never goes in? So, if I stay out of ranged, I won't be recasting it after an AoE? Or, does he start attacking whatever I cast on"[/p][p] You still have to tell your pet to attack.[/p][p]all that /pet ranged does is, the mage pet will no longer run and start to melee the mob when it is waiting for recast timers. It will just stand right where you are (or move forward so that it is at max range for its spells if it isn't close enough). So, when it is waiting on recast timers, the pet will just stand still not doing anything until its timers are up.[/p][p] One thing you need to be careful of, however, is to make sure your pet has line of sight on the mob. If you say attack and the pet doesnt have Line of Sight, but is in range, it will jsut stand there, and not move to try and get line of sight. (where Call Servant works nicely. hehe)[/p]
First and foremost ditch the m2 displace life. You can still heal effectively when you get the adept3 version but this should never be your primary goal just a nice thing to top up the MT in hard times. Get either abate life or torrential pestilence M2 depending on which is cheaper/more common on your server and make sure all your spells are at adept 3. Get the rotting line fully not for for lifeburn (great fun but many necros are too reliant on it) but for the improvements to your main dots, then look at your pets in the KoS aa's and spec accordingly. Mage pet is the best by a long shot no so INT line fully is well advised STR is the usual other choice for crits but WIS has its benefits for the non hardcore raider to heal more and solo better and Animists bond end ability is good for soaking up AE's if your ranged pet cant avoid them. Pacts line will then help you nicely improving your utility with better rez, better heals, faster hearts and if you go all the way the true AE immunity. I still say people should never fixate too much on cast order as its often needing to be changed for each fight dependant upon the number of mobs and such so just work out the basics and go from there.
Sounds like you got caught up in an "uber" raiding guild. Some people don't appreciate the finer points of style for any class. Its all about dps for some folks. STOP LISTENING TO THEM!!! The necromancer is one of the most flexible classes in all of EQ2. When played as such you can do so much to boost your group/raids effectiveness that the extra dps won't matter all that much. Really, on a raid the only thing that matters is that the raiding party wins against the boss mob. Who put out how much dps is irrelevant if the boss mob is dead. [/p] 1) Yes. I am frequently the back up healer. When a fight goes badly it is my heal+life tap combination that often keeps someone else alive so they can do more dps than me or heal someone else or keep that mandatory resist buff up...etc, etc. With feign death I can survive a wipe to rezz the templar who can group rezz the rest. Also, don't forget you can root, fear and charm undead mobs for crowd control. Hearts provide power regen for other players. I wouldn't put a master II into a heal though. Adept III is fine. If you have any unused AA pts you can boost the heal later. 2) I only use the tank pet when soloing. On raids I will go with the mage or scout pet depending on what we are raiding. If the mob AOE's a lot I will use the mage pet with ranged attacks. Often on raids I will not use any of them since I am asked by the raid leader to bring out the Ooze Crawler (final ability on Gravecalling line). 'Old Oozy' has some wicked debuffs to the mobs dps that our healers just love. When grouping I rarely use the Ooze Crawler and never the tank pet. 3) Yes. Always care about dps. You are an offensive caster. But do not get obsessed about it. If dps is what is needed in a given situation then focus on your DOT's and life taps. Send in the scout pet or mage pet (your preference). Throw in a couple of debuffs (all you have are a couple of debuffs anyway). However, if the pull goes wrong start tossing those heals and keep a finger on the feign death key. It may just be that you need to heal the main healer who is too busy keeping the tank alive to worry about him/herself. Once the main tank has aggro I open with the life tap since it has the longer recast timer than the DOTs. Then I use my DOTs. By the time they are done the life tap recast timer has reset so I can use it again. If you are at a point you are waiting for a recast timer on any of those use a debuff. Experiment. There is no hard fast rule. What makes a good rhythm for you is what matters. 4) No. I only have 68 AA's and I raid fine. I put out between 1000 and 1200 dps on any given encounter unless I am using Ooze Crawler (then it goes down to about 600). That is at level 70 without Lifeburn, BTW. If your guild is giving you that much grief then find another guild. My AA spec has a WIS 4/4/8/8 and 20 pts in Gravecalling and 16 in Rotting (working on getting that to 20 asap).
