Banditman wrote: OMG can you people stop trying to split hairs... My original post stated that a wizard would loose 5% of his dps by breaking his 5 piece set, and a freaking noob said "No you wont, cause it only says 4%." Everyone so far has agreed that 4% base damage boost is more than a 5% increase in DPS which was my point. I know perfectly well that you can get well beyond a 5% increase in dps from that 4% base damage increase if you have debuffs, spell damage increases and the ring of readyness and a whole slew of other items, but the fact remains that breaking the 5 Piece set is detrimental because none of the pieces you get to replace it will bring back that boost until you get your 5 piece of T3 once more. Please stop nit-picking posts and look at the big issue: WoE progression is not possible through internal itemization, and to get the dps check needed for the zone, items of higher quality than currently drop in the zone are needed for its proper completion. On top of this, they have stated that they will add a new x2 zone which will be harder than the current x2, which means, most players will just not bother with it. The rumor is that this new zone will be Kurn's Tower, and that is what my original reply to this post was... how it degraded into a loot issue is beyond me atm...
Freliant wrote: The extra DPS you get with debuffs and buffs come from debuffs and buffs, not the 4% one the 5set. You dont know how base damage works. 4% bonus with debuffs will just give you 4% more than you would have otherwise in the same situation, that still just 4 last time i cheked, there are no buffs or debuffs in the game that will change that. The WoE 4arms have base damage so you dont actually lose 4% overall when breaking the T2 5set. Theres no T2 4arms any way so you can wear them without changing your T2 at all and you still think theres no progression. Infact, you can equip 2 WoE set items without breaking the T2 5set. Guess you were wrong about no progression? If your dieing all the time like allot of the ppl complaing in this thread prolly are then sorry but the survivability that comes with the T3 is worth more than the 4% on the T2. And yes, even tanks can wear to items before breaking their T2 5set. Tell us again how theres no progession. This isnt nit picking its the differance between a raid that fails and one that clears it.
Beghard wrote: Simplified: 1) Equiping any 2 pieces of T3 TSO gear breaks the sorcerer 5 set - 4% base damage, which TRANSLATES to over a 5% decrease in dps. (See 3) 2) If you had other items to increase your damage through other means, (As in Najena's Ring of readyniss, which actually just maxes your spell damage, you know, that number you see under spell crit) then your decrease in DPS will be more than just 5%. This gets compounded more if the mob in question has also been debuffed, in that case, your 4% drop in base damage will be more pronounced than 6%. 3) The only way to get the 2 Set bonus from the T3 Set and not break the T2 5 set bonus (we are talking about a minute int boost btw which will do nothing to sorcerer dps anyways), is to kill Captain Grush (7th mob into the zone), which means you would have to be able to kill the first 6 mobs in the zone, since the captain is behind 6 portals each controlled by one of the other named... until all 6 portals are down, you can't kill the captain, which means you cannot get your 2 set bonus from T3 AND your 5 set bonus from T2 unless you can already kill 7 mobs in the zone... In other words... you will get your 5 set bonus for your T3 before you can get both the T2 5 piece set bonus AND your T3 2 set bonus. So, where exactly is your progression? Is it the 1% additional crit from the boots? The 1% spell haste from the gloves? The 1% crit from the helm? O, I get it, its the 1% crit from the robe... no? How about the 1% reuse speed from the pants.. it must be that... Wait, lets get a 2 set together... 30 int will certainly increase your dps over the percentage you lost by breaking the 5 set right... no? Then the 1% reuse that gets added by having the 3 set can make up for it, right? Sarcasm off... The sleves do not have base damage increase. The only pieces with base damage increase are the shoulders and the chest... and the chest piece does not get an increase to base damage. Which means, when you "upgrade" to the next pieces in T3, you are going no where but down until you can rebuild the 5 set from the T3 set. In layman's terms, this means that you can ONLY progress in the zone, if you can kill the first 5 named in the zone with the T2 5 set gear, or greater... which means, raid loot from other raid zones that will give you a greater boost than what you loose. This is something that everyone else has already noted, but you are too stubborn to see. There is NO PROGRESSION from WoE until you get get your 5 piece bonus from the T3 set. Which means you need to be able to kill at least 5 mobs (not counting the book encounter) before you can see any sort of progression. So if the first 5 mobs of this zone cannot be killed with a raid with Full T2 gear and their fabled epic, then progression is not going to happen.
Freliant wrote: Max listed on BoI, 20,120. Add 50% for debuffs, 30,180, add up to 35% for base damage buffs/procs, 40,743, crit multiplier of 1.51 and we have 61,521.93 damage (intentionally done in an inappropriate order). Its not splitting hairs, its understanding game mechanics and not spreading false information.
Noaani wrote: Did the math, and since multiplication is not affected by order in which you do the calculation, indeed, 4% increase to base damage translates to a 4% increase in dps. So I was wrong that your dps changes any more or any less than the stated amount of base damage modification. That mistake, however, does not mean that I was wrong about itemization progression. I feel inclined to dare anyone to show me piece by piece how the raid will be better prepared when switching from one piece to the next of T3 gear. All calculations will show that there is no progress until you get 5 pieces of gear from T3. And if you can get the forearms, you can already clear 6 mobs, and will have the 5 piece set (or can get it in time).
Freliant wrote: Your forgetting to take +spell damage and how it gets affected by base damage into account. Its not about multiplication its about effect stacking. Also, I don't really care if your overall point was right or wrong, I was pointing out a piece of missinformation. I may go back and see wtf the point you were trying to make was, so I can see if I need to point anything out with that as well.
Freliant wrote: Noaani, This is the point I wanted to make clear, and where my math was off was when I said 5% decrease in dps, instead of 4%. Make that change in my post, and have at it. Please point out where I was wrong in concept.
Like others, I really hope the new x2 zone does not have its own set of armor. How absurd would it be to have a mixture of pieces of T2, T3, T4, and now T5? What would have made sense is if the 3rd named in WoE was a little tougher and if the pattern off of him had the 5 set piece bonus of the T2. That way when we equip that piece, we are not losing anything.
Freliant wrote: I havn't read the thread enough to know what the concept your point out is, let alone whether its right or wrong. I just saw one post that had incorrect info, so I corrected it. I'll set some time aside today to read the thread throughly and let you know what I think.
Noaani wrote: /bow Much respect. As for the x2 loot... if its harder than WoE, then the drops should indeed be better, and like others have said, I hope they focus on jewelry and offhand stuff for that zone.
I read the thread, and you are right. For most classes, upgrading less than 5 pieces of gear to T3 will be a downgrade (the devs know this, but don't have a means to get around it). The math you used may have had its issues, but your reasoning lead you to the right answer. The only other thing i have seen wrong in this thread is the 6 barriers; there are only 4. Each of the elemental named mobs have an elemental barrier that they drop when killed. Imperator Ignus and Benach Aglebar can be ignored (the first mob on the right, and the book room).
feldon30 wrote: Based on interviews I have read from the devs, while Art does take up alot of time, that is right now being spent on Expainsion 6 and SC/LoN items. It takes almost as much time to populate a zone and script encounters. So I would say they put a lot of work into adding Raid zones. Besides I can't think of one non-expainsion zone addition group, raid, or solo that was completly unque zone art. Plus TSO really only added 6 or 7 new zone sets one for each zone area.
kela wrote: SoH, Unrest, Tunarian Thronroom, all of Neriak/DLW. It does take a long time to populate a zone, especially a script heavy raid zone, though the content team is likely larger than the zone art team. kela wrote: It added 3 full sets (void, Guk, Befallen), expanded on two existing sets (EF and LS), made use of an existing set with no addition (Mistmoore), and then you have the Fens zones, two of which used various existing art, the other used totally new art.
Noaani wrote: I stand corrected no both counts then. Though Neriak/DLW was outsourced to the former SOGA devision, and they are kinda bussy from what I understand doing work for FreeRealms ATM, so we might not get anything new from them for a while.
I'm happy kurns towar will have 2 versions; Group and Raid. However i looked at screenshots and I'm not to pleased what it's turning out to be. I recall someone once mentioning they saw a sneak preview of the interior once and it was full of burinai and looked similar to how it was in eq1, but after seeing the screenshots on eq2players, it's just another dang void ancor... When we ask for kurns we want kurns, not something put in it's place. As long as it's not ridiculously hard I'll play along I guess...
Eschia@Antonia Bayle wrote: If you want Kurns... then you know where to find it... EQ. If instead you want to play EQ2, then we are currenlty in the midst of a Void invasion, and even though its not to your liking, they are the ones that came in and populated Kurns tower. That doesn't mean, however, that we will not get Kurn's Lore.
Freliant wrote: the tower is the group zone, so it wont have burinai and have void things, still might resemble parts of the old tower, the void achor is the X2 zone. and really, nothing on kunark looks the same as it did in 1, did you think this would somehow be diffrent? err that last part sounds kinda harsh but i cant think of a better way to say it.
shadowscale wrote: It was my understanding that there is a timeline involved. EQOA was set 500 years before EQ1. EQ2 is set 500 years AFTER EQ1. So if they are still following that time line as it was originally stated when EQ2 was released, then certainly you have to admit things will change. EQ2 is not EQ1 with better graphics. It's not going to have the same areas, the same exact mobs in certain areas, etc. In 500 years, a lot will change. Right now, we're going through a void invasion so I was not surprised to see a void anchor in place there. Who knows? Maybe the zone will go through some changes as the game progresses so it would be more like you remember it from EQ1. /shrug
