Just wondering when monks were going to be thrown some love.

That is all.

We need some fuckin' love soon. I seriously can not hold aggro AT ALL on AE casters (Conjurors) and not even wizards occasionally.. So we can't hold aggro or tank as well; and zerkers can put out dps close to monks. Maybe make the tranquil vision enhance do 9% per point instead of 9% for 1 point and the same at maxed AA.

[p]What is the roll of the brawler in this game....[/p][p] What purpose without making up some half excuse of how they parse just over a dirge or how they arnt ment to tank and really arnt required on raid mobs where a player wont get hit with a special ability if they are a brawler.[/p][p]We do not use a brawler period because they are a waist of a spot on the roster. Why have a class that doesnt have a purpose or roll.[/p][p] Disclaimer** im not an english major so have no care or worry how badly I miss spell words or use bad grammer and if you care that much dont read it.[/p]

[p]Bruisers first!![/p][p] [/p][p]Get in line monk!! /flex![/p]

Well at least we can still solo poets......than again, maybe that's just some of us.

sure we can, but man does it take a while

Enough with the hate, wheres the love? Its there. Grab it, take it, make it your own.[ul][li]Every raid guild needs at least one brawler, can't say the same for most other classes. If you don't know why that might be why your not there.[/li][li]I counter my aoe aggro problems with swashy aggro. The other group members hold their damage back a bit (ex. no wizards manaburning on the pull) and my groups speed through instances. Before you say "But zerkers don't need this" so what? zerker's also can't group FD and save the group, or FD on a bad pull. They also can't tsunami every minute like we can. (Again, if you think about it you'll know how)[/li][li]Good dps monks parse 1k dps with auto attack in a crap group with no buffs, and can do up to 2.5k dps with the right group. This is consistent, power efficient dps and good raid leaders will take advantage of a monk's ability to maintain high dps and power. Even tank speced i'm still parsing 600 dps auto attack in a crap group and 1.5k dps in the melee dps group.[/li][li]I can name 3 mobs/zones that pretty much require a monk to complete. And in others, a monk just makes things so much easier. Like a bard, no we're not "required" but when we make things so much easier, why not? And not getting hit with that "special ability." yeah not required i suppose, but thats like fighting Cruor and NOT bringing aoe immunity [/li][li]Solo poets? are you crazy? Why would you bother. %_%[/li][/ul]If you are more concerned with hate than staying alive your already moving in the right direction. You might need to find some hate procing items, or master out your skills. You might also want to find a class with hate transfer that you can depend on.[ul][li]To conclude, the brawlers role is to make the raid easier. Just like every other class.[/li][/ul]

[p][size="large"]So basicly... What direction is the monk class/ brawler subclass going in...[/size][/p][p] [/p][p][size="large"]Or does it have a direction. Is it being worked on. Is the class as intended as a GM would say. Answers are the key not flaming. Thats not what is going down. Understanding is the key. Without it you can not judge, you can not see, you can not progress. How, in the future, will monks progress into being a dependent class.[/size][/p][p] [/p][p][size="large"]That is all for now.[/size][/p][p] [/p]

i don't even know what to say to the rest, that's the most elitist thing i've ever seen on these boards probably. buffless 1k autoattack dps i want those weapons, but we sure as hell dps higher than bards. yes you can buff a swash for debuffs, but you get more bang for the buck buffing monks over any other class unless that class is as heavily hasted (which takes an illusionist and troubadour to reach our self buffed haste). if you increase said classes dps by 300 you're gonna increase ours by 500+. don't argue that warriors tank better, but yes we can tank, eof instances with 1 healer, monks tank raid mobs too just not as well as other tank classes. a guardian is not going to reach our dps with equivalent tiered weapons, although i seriously doubt soe has even given us equivalent gear to that mayong 1hander. the love for monks will come when they actually give us some itemization and fix avoidance after 10 years of trying through EQ1 and 2. oh and our haste buff stacks with all other haste buffs. we do have some usefullness trax, we are not completely worthless, with no use whatsoever for anything in the game other than soloing. take your utter crap and go troll some other classes boards.

[ul][li]Wow. You look at an encounter that can be done with out class X and say "Oh look that class is useless." Well i've done deathtoll with no conjuror and we didn't wipe once. What does a conjuror bring to a raid? huh? Well I guess they are useless. Don't you try that tired old **** with me[/li][li]Thats great, so a conjuror made the Curor fight easier? you don't say... We didn't have one and killed it. We didn't have a Conjuror, 0, YA. Hell, we didn't have a defiler, inquisitor or coercer. Guess they must suck too. Lets get rid of all of them! Any class can be replaced[/li][li]About poets, WHY WOULD YOU BOTHER... Cash? Masters? [/li][/ul][ol][li]Utility: Brawlers DO pull mobs. I'm sorry, but 12 seconds of complete immunity to most mobs is invaluable in my pulling strategy. I even use a second monk sometimes to double that to 24seconds. Also, there is no bard that outparses me and is doing his job. Sure, he can put up self buff, and forget to use specials to heal/hasten the tank. But I wouldn't want that kind of bard on my raids. What class can CONSISTENTLY FD all the way down to vyemm with no failures? Thats 400 FD and no failure. Show me a necro that does that.[/li][li]Tanking: I'll tank whatever I damn want. Your only fooling yourself if you think otherwise.[/li][li]DPS: I'm sorry, but we DID do deathtoll and the 4th highest dpser? Yeah a monk. Not me. But he was a monk. And i'm DAMN proud of him.[/li][/ol]Your the worst kind of scum. You think that because you a class is not NECESSARY that its USELESS. I'm sorry that your small-minded and can't CONCIEVE of a class that might have things to offer other than raw dps. I'd say that the brawler is the jack-of-all-trades. You want dps? let me switch to offensive. You want a tank? Here let me switch to offensive and mountan stance. You want someone to disarm traps? Here ya go. Train that mob away so we can rez? Sure why not. I can think of a million things I can do. Can you get to the top of PoA in less than a minute? Didn't think so. Get every discovery in Mistmore castle by yourself? Nah. Stare up at mayong weeks before anyone has killed him? Get outta here. We all do what we can. And brawlers do it DAMN well.[ul][li]GOOD DAY~![/li][/ul]

:roll:

I rerolled a Monk on Nagafen ---> Currently lvl 23 with 37 AA. I think it would be nuts to give monks more love!! Awesome tank - i know of no platetank serverwide that would take my place as MT @ my lvl, 2000+hps solo, 65% avoidance, 50% mitigation (fabled+adorns), 40-60% resists (@tier3!!!). At lvl 22 i could solo Lord Androus +his adds. My DPS is awesome. I've played many toons - maxed them out, but NEVER EVER had such a one man army!! "Monks are like clay" - give them the right AA, well thought out gear and they can do anything (well nearly). If you want an example of what can be done at lvl 70, look at ESAR on Befallen (if hes still there). In summary: Awesome tanks (if you can't hold group agro - player issue imho), Good DPS, Invisibility, Utility.......

You're a moron, stay off the brawler forums. Go raid some t6 and say you're badass because you're a monk and can tank it.

Last time I checked, Kriddle tanked. Not Esar. He's not on Befallen anymore. Thanks for your input.

[ul][li]"You're a moron, stay off the brawler forums. Go raid some t6 and say you're badass because you're a monk and can tank it." Ahh resorting to names. Well I was told before that I would never be able to tank Courts or Gates. And I have *shrugs* So yeah i've accomplished SOMEthing. I'll be tanking MoA this saturday and i'm going to attempt to FRAPS it. We'll see how well my computer takes the pressure.[/li][li]Yeah when I was on Befallen Esar was kindof my hero, back in T5 he used to raid tank vision of vox and some other encounters. Kriddle isn't in the guild anymore either And you should notice that Miroh (a monk) is the guild leader. In fact, most of the old EC guild isn't there anymore (yeah I was an early member.)[/li][li]I guess the next thing is to to go tank Mayong. I've been told I can't. SO... i'll go prove them wrong *shrugs* Really the only thing holding me back from advancing at this point is my guild. But I love them because they give me the oportunities others (like yourself) wouldn't. [/li][li]I'm kindof sick of this: I say "Look I tanked X with a brawler" and someone says, "yeah, well a plate tank can do that." ... DE DE DEEEE your missing the point. Brawlers are told we CANNOT tank X, then we go and do it, and what? Oh thats been done before by someone else. Well so what. [/li][li]"buffless 1k autoattack dps i want those weapons" I never said buffless, sorry to mislead if you took that away. And don't roll your eyes, I've seen a monk parse that high. In a raid, but in crap group 4. I don't know his exact setup. But i'm guessing debuffs help alot. And I know that on the rare raid that I get a dirge in my MT group, I can parse 1k with auto attacks in defensive stance. [/li][/ul]Your right, I havn't tanked alot of T7 or even the higher end of T6. But unless you have and failed, you don't have much basis either. But you cannot deny that there are raids that include a role for brawlers specifically (Chel'drak, three princes, deathtoll) and that is a marked improvement over t5 and t6. I've done Chel'drak without a conjuror, and without ANY freeport classes. Heck, I don't even think we had a templar though I might be wrong. The only classes I see being required for a smooth raid are:[ul][li]Brawler: tough pulls and disarming traps.[/li][li]Shaman: Wards > all other heals.[/li][li]Druid: HoT combo well with wards to keep the tank up. Fast efficient heals.[/li][li]Rogue: Some mobs require Rogue tanks. Constant dps, hate transfer/debuffs.[/li][li]Troubadour: The better bard. 20% hate reduction for a dps group > 40% increase for the tank.[/li][/ul]I don't find these NECESSARY:[ul][li]Summoner: Nice, but just brings dps. CoH and shards are a perk.[/li][li]Crusader: I have one, I'd say that they can fill many roles, but arn't required for anything except Three princes. Tank well though.[/li][li]Warrior: Too many and your overbalanced. [/li][li]Predator: Why? just dps again... good dps but lacks utility. [/li][li]Enchanter: Really... they either trivialize content, or are completely useless. Read their boards.[/li][li]Sorcerer: Dps, dps and MORE dps~![/li][li]Dirge: very nice to have, and much better solo than a troub. But they arn't required.[/li][/ul]But... I'm not going to turn down that crusader who wants to raid with us because he's not necessary. If he's a good player, knows his class and makes the raid smoother then of course I want him in my raid. I guess Traxor is lucky and his guild has the option to turn down good players because they arn't necessary. Really, I don't.

wow double post how?

Okay. Summoner: Well-played can reach 1.5-2.5K dps EVERY fight. Monks can't come close. Hearts and shards are infact REQUIRED for some fights (Chel'drak, Clockworks, etc.) Also conjuror pet pulling can make or break some encounters. Crusader: The mit buff is nice for tanks. Pally's have in-combat rez, LOH, lots of heals and wards. SKs have Death March (hella aggro) and HT. Warrior: Needed to tank. Not much more to say. Predators: Hellacious DPS, again 1.5-2.5K every fight if played well. Dispatch is almost needed for raids. Swashbuckler offensive debuffs are needed as well. Enchanter: They buff like CRAZY! Hate buffs on coercers, crack, mezz, what more is to be said? Haste/procs on illusionist. Sorcerer: Manaburn/power feeds. I know some sorcerers that can parse 4-5k on any fight under 1minute duration. Even after that they're in the top 5. Dirge: Hate buffs, Stoneskin, BLADE DANCE. COB.. Eh.. I've noticed something, though. Most of the advantages to having these classes only truly shows up in t7 raiding, which you do minimal of. Hmm, coincidence? And for the big bang! Monk: 12second melee god mode, 22% group haste, heal, and group FD! Come on man, look at this.. Unless you have some fetish to run around popping traps in DT you shouldn't be happy with the monk.

[ul][li]Yawn I was there for chel'drak. Don't tell me whats "required" I've done every t7 raid zone, not to the end, but i've gone and killed the first few with some other guilds. We're on pvp, so we don't get any FP classes. Ever done Chel'drak without dispatch?[/li][li]So, what makes any of those classes "required"? Most easily replace each other. 3 wizards and 1 pred are as good as 2 pred and 2 wizard yes? Or at least fairly close.[/li][li]Read the enchanter boards, they are so underpowered man. They totally need more crack, man.[/li][li]Warriors needed to tank? Nah. Pallys do it well too. Monks also. Again, i'm on a pvp server so I cannot speak for the FP only classes.[/li][/ul]Whats really HILARIOUS to me is that you just reitterated what I said about those classes. Still dosn't convince me that they are required to raid. Hell I bet you could raid without any one subclass, or evey two.[li]Monk: Saves the raid from wiping. You cannot imagine the number of times the MT has gone down, raids about to wipe, Rescue, tsunami SPRINT! till the mob resets. I can't think of another class that can do that, can you?[/li][li]Monk: Kicks *** until the tippy tip top of the raid progression, losses a bit of steam and is considered worthless *shrugs*. Until you get to wuoshi, or Pumpkin head if you like, we're very well balanced. Very usefull in a raid. Kindof like the dirge. The best raid IMO would have 3 troub, 1 melee group, 2 mage dps groups and 1 MT group, all set up for perfect dps. yadda yadda it dosn't matter. Since each encounter can be done with less, why do I NEED something?[/li]Seriously, what class are you that you feel the need to troll the monk boards with your unjustified negativity? I'm guessing your another conjuror. Comming over here to lord over us with your planeshifted pets. Or maybe your a dirge, probably not as then you would know that troubadours get blade dance and better hate buffs.

[p] When you start seeing 20k to 30k+ parses on fights for your raid party, or 3 taunts resisted in a row vs. epics you'll see why coercers and dirges are needed so much in the MT group and why we say that monk hate vs muti mob encounters needs some love. kthx [/p][p]P.S. There is always peeps fighting over who gets double hit or time compression from the illusionist too. Chanters are definatly needed in raids these days....where as monks are not. Any one of our plate tanks can run off a bad encounter too without tsunami btw.[/p]

What is your contention again? That we arn't needed in raids? If so then my contention is that no class or subclass is needed in raids.[ul][li]Um... 30k dps is only 2.5k dps per dps class...assuming you have 12 dps in your raid, seems a given. And i've already stated that thats where I can hold it. CURRENTLY. With only 1/2 fabled armor. I don't parse very high when I tag along with other guild's raids, so when I dps I also taunt like crazy. Never gets resisted even in offensive. Are you sure your taunts are mastered and the mobs are properly debuffed?[/li][li]So people like having enchanters in their raid? good. I like having monks in mine. To each his own I suppose. PLEASE read the enchanter boards, where they are complaining that they are no longer REQUIRED for raids and are now useless. All because tinkeres get crappy versions of mez and memwipe.[/li][li]I sincerly doubt a plate tank can run off an epic mob that just wiped the MT. What sprint speed do they attain?[/li][/ul]

[p]I'm stalking you man [/p][p]I think you guys are confusing need with useful. There is not a specific class you need in any raid. There ARE classes you would rather have. For example, if I had one spot in a raid left and the choices were a chanter (since you are hooked on them atm) or a monk, I would choose the chanter. The chanter will raise the DPS of the entire grp, provide decent DPS himself, can provide better agro, and keep a group supplied with power for long fights. If I were doing hard, end-game content, no question that would be my choice. As for hate, if you are fighting high yellow to orange mobs, taunt resists really can become an issue.[/p][p]As for running off a mob, again, you are confusing issues. Running off a mob may help speed up a raid following a wipe and save some time fighting repops, but it in now way helps you beat the encounter. You may have saved the raid 20 minutes, but you have not made it more successful. [/p]