First, let me point out that when it comes down to end game content as a Fighter there is really only 1 thing that you are brought into the raid force for since DoV launched. To Tank. Now when it comes to tanking there are really only 2 major areas that a Fighter needs to do the job. Agro and Mitigating Damage. Now Agro can be broken down into 2 areas as well...sustained Agro and snap Agro. While Mitigating damage can be broken down to overall damage mitigation and spike damage mitigation. Since DoV with the huge change in DPS disparity and the building of reliance on others to sustain Agro reliably SOE created a pretty even field when it comes to sustainable agro. All tanks just really have to rely on hate buffs and transfers to do it. For this area SKs are balanced. Its the other 3 categories of snap agro, overall damage mitigation, and spike damage prevention that SKs aren't when compared to Brawlers and Guards. Recommendations: Snap Agro: Either create better cool downs for the few snaps we have. Or better would be to make Furor or a similar type ability that raises 1 hate position when hitting a target. It than becomes a reliable snap tool like Mantis Leap and Reinforcement with a longer cool down. Great to fill in the lack of snap tools we don't have. Very important as an OT in the current mechanics. Overall Damage Mitigation: Simple really. We have significantly lower avoidance and take significantly more damage over time. The fix here is making lifetaps worth it. Currently lifetaps do nothing in raid content. The heal on them are way too small compared to hp pools and are really a wasted mechanic 90% of the time since the healers job is to keep you full health. The heal goes nowhere. I think it was Atan that put up the idea of a type of buff that the SK has that is a regenerating ward that regenerates based on a SK lifetapping. Some number tweaking need to be done to see what an optimum ward size would be, but I would think something like 30-40% of the SKs current HP pool. I definitely recommend a % based ward size to make sure it scales. Spike Damage: AEs one shot almost every round. 1 single type reflect or stoneskin or something to fill the gap would put us on par with Brawlers and Guards in Spike Damage prevention. It needs to be something that works on both Physical and Magic damage though otherwise it becomes way too limited unlike generic stoneskins. Fighters are not currently balanced in Raid content and this would bring us up to par. Before somebody gets into it believe me I know that Paladins and Zerkers need fixes too. However, this is simply a SK talking about what needs to be addressed to balance against Brawlers and Guards for raid content. The alternative is nerfs.
Aggress with ever thing mentioned above. For the level of content (easy mode and few bosses in HM) I am doing and as an OT, snap agro is huge issue for me personally. We used to overcome this by way of DPS back in SF but that's not cutting it anymore given how much more DPS T1 damager dealers are doing now in DoV. I favour reduced cool downs on the snaps we have already.
Bruener wrote: Fighter classes are balanced better than they ever have been right now. There really is not a problem for SK's that can't be fixed with gear, proper AA setup, buffs and playstyle. You just want to be OP like you were in your glory days of TSO, but I doubt the devs are going to go backwards and let that happen. (PS: If this reply sounds familiar it's because it is the same argument you used over and over for 2 years against guardians getting some "luv" as you called it. Perhaps now you can learn to appreciate the concept of Karma.)
Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote: That is a pile too. I probably had more posts than any Guardian on fixes that Guards needed. My problem was the stupid fixes that some Guards wanted. Like more DPS. More Offensive utility. You can thank me for how your class is working today since it was me versus the idiots that secured the defensive increase and utility that you have today. Anyhow. Stay out of this thread. Fighter balance is the worst it has ever been for end game content. EDIT: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...478444� ...proofs in the pudding.
Bruener wrote: Oh yes, it was easy to cry crocodile tears in all those posts during the day, when you were logging in every night to a ridiculously OP toon like the SK was in TSO and beyond. In today's EQII, it's a waste of bandwidth to QQ about a class that frankly is not broken. All the SK needs is a little luv on the raiding end. I think we can all agree with that. But we're not ever going back to the SK glory days of TSO again, which seems to be what you're fishing for. No fighter class is over the top in every category like we saw in TSO, and no fighter class is under the bus either. Which is the way it should be.
3 Fighters being ahead in every major area for tanking is not balanced. Snap Capability = Brawlers/Guards win Spike Damage Prevention = Brawlers/Guards win Sustained damage mitigating = Brawlers/Guards win Sustained Agro = Balanced That is not balanced. All I did was make a post again to show the areas that are lacking for SKs and than tossed up some ideas to improve those. Unlike Guards I prefer not to try and offer ideas that move away from class identity though. Hence building on Furor to provide some snap capability. Building on Lifetaps to help with overall damage mitigation. And than some type of single absorb/reflect ability for spike damage. Unfortunately even moving far into HM Drunder it still is all about spike damage and snap capabilities and it doesn't look to be changing. So we need to build on areas we are lacking for the current mechanics.
Same reply as the thread from the general section -> I've been mentioned by several parties, several times in this thread(Darkonx). I have a fully geared Shadowknight, and a fully geared Monk. Fighters are so ridiculously imbalanced that it makes me sick. Shadowknights survivability is absolute trash when compared to a brawler or a guardian. Bloodletter being recastable in combat, in it's current form, would HELP, but even that wouldn't be enough. Currently grouped with an inquisitor it has a two minute reuse, and two triggers. That means that after those are gone, it's down for two minutes. Brawlers get a THREE trigger one, with a lesser reuse. I started to list abilities and try to compare but the truth is I can't. Fighter balance is so beyond broken right now I had to roll a monk if I wanted to stay the guilds maintank without crippling my raids progression. The skillgap between players is eclipsed SO much by class balance that it's absolutely unreal how the game has anything but brawlers and guardians still playing fighters. Xelgad please for the love of god fix fighter balance. Being able to crit heals of a numeric value (lifetaps/paladin heals/sk's reactive/paladins ward) would also help. I'd say change those two things, in combat BL and crits on numeric heals, and then see how class balance looks. Right now it's pretty grim.
It isn't going to happen, to many people screamed and threw tantrums at a when SK's where doing what their class is supposed to do. At any rate the posting of suggestions might make Sony alter SK further to the point playing one is pointless. The crit heals really where the only thing keeping Sk alive solo unless said person was outgeared, now mercenaries do the healing I should be doing for myself. Kinda just wish they would stop "fixing" stuff as they tend to break it considering bloodletter is completely useless without a full group and then you have to hope it decides to work. Mine hasn't worked since a update in Sunderered Frontier so I don't use it anymore.
I wanted to add that the Mythical buff needs to change. It is by far the worst Mythical buff of Fighters not doing at all what it was intended to do. The idea was to provide massive AE agro through lifetapping for heals. The problem is that Lifetap heals are so tiny that the hate from the buff is a joke. A 300% of 500 hps Lifetaps hate to engaged mobs means a whopping 1.5k hate per second. The Mythical effects designed for the intent of raiding this does worse in raiding than it does in solo. So the buff needs to change to something that works as originally intended....large amounts of AE agro. Also the clicky buff with such a long reuse should absorb any type of damage instead of just Physical.
Bruener wrote: I proposed this idea back in SF, or was it DOV beta.. I don't remember, one of them Get the top 1% of each class into a vent server and talk to them about their class. I realize the top 1% may be subjective but it'd be SOMETHING. We need so much help it's ridiculous. Our mythical clicky is terrible, our mythical buff is worse, our lifetaps do nothing, our static defensive capabilities are trash, our temps are some of the worst in game defensively. Shadowknights need so much help it's mind boggling that it was allowed to get this bad.
Why must SKs be able to tank end game content? Just because someone tagged them as a fighter? I hate this idea of balance. Where every 'fighter' must be able to perform the same role. Why can't SKs just be an awesome solo class that does really well in groups? The thing that ruins a MMO is this sillly idea that all classes must be able to compete equally in every situation. The fact that leather wearing priest classes want to be 'balanced' against plate wearing fighter classes in pvp is absurd. But they cry and you have devs adding silly 'tweaks' to the system in the name of 'balance.' Bah! If you want to tank end game content roll a guardian or pally. I hope they give you more aggro skills. But I hope they take away your life taps to 'balance' it out.
Gravy wrote: Just as each dps class should be able to do it's job in it's own way and each healer class should be able to do it's job in it's own way, each fighter class should be able to do it's job in it's own way. Why should any specific class be DESIGNED to not be useful in any aspect of the game? Why should the developers pigeon hole someone into only grouping, or only soloing, or only raiding, and being forced to choose a different class if they want to experience more of the game? That makes no sense. What does make sense, though, is for every class to have the basic tools for each aspect of the game. Certainly, they should accompany their roles in a different way, you want a different flavor, but they should each have the tools needed to be viable. Gravy, ask a pally whether they are a viable end game tank when compared to guardian or brawler....you want life taps, take them. They are useless as they currently exist. They are simply "flavor" for the class at the moment, which are somewhat useful in solo situations, but only minimally. It wouldn't take massive changes, a tweak here or there, and I think the class would be fine. Make lifetaps useful, make the mythical buff useful, increase survivability a bit, add a snap aggro tool, or make it so the mythical clicky works as it says it does, and I think things would be okay.
Gravy wrote: I got to here and then shook my head, then took an advil. And now i'm closing the forum, because my head hurts now.
Gravy wrote: Because this isn't EQ1 where you have 50+ characters in a raid and can use lesser tanks for offtank duty, with the small raid size in EQ2 every tank class has to be fully capable, otherwise they're a waste of space in a raid. Honestly I prefered the EQ1 world where Knights and Warriors had different roles, but, that's not the world we're in.
Protection values on shields should be enough to put us on the same curve as Brawlers when it comes to +block chance. What I mean there is right now Brawlers cap their uncontested block at like 175 +block chance. It takes a Plate take about +230 block chance to hit that same cap. This is because of the protection value on shields. The value should be high enough so that Plate tanks cap uncontested block at 175 like Brawlers. They should also have AAs that benefit Crusaders when using a 2h, both offensively and defensively. Crusaders should plain be a 2h class like they were in EQ1. Make it possible to both tank and DPS while using a 2h weapon. Really its quite simple, either make Crusader only 2h weapons with protection value or give AAs that add protection value while a 2h is equipped. I mean they let Brawlers do it for some reason and they aren't even the "2h wielding Knights" of the game. Anyhow if they are not going to increase the gap in damage taken per hit between us and Brawlers than they need to close the gap in avoidance to be minimal. Changing the curve on block chance and removing strike through immunity would close it. Than they could make sure they balance mob damage output around that avoidance and could use strike through as a way to actually regulate Tank avoidance like it was supposed to be. Than tweak some abilities for Crusaders and Zerkers to give them a little more one shot prevention and things would be much more balanced than they are today.
Always thought that we should have a form of a backstabb rescue. I mean, it isnt that far off for an evil knight to ram their blade through the back of a person. Basicly, a massive hate, high dmg, decent range rescue with several hate positions snap aggro with flanking/back requirement position. With a good reuse. So basicly, a nice situational rescue fit for our image. The problem with making our heals just that more effective during raids as i see it. Is the fact that we could roll through all the group instances without flinching and never be even close to dying. All though, that idea that was mentioned earlier with a type of regenerating ward based on how much we lifetap could be quite an awsome idea. What if we said ward only triggers if the dmg reiceved is larger then 50% - 60% of our max hp pool? It would solve alot of the problems with us being completely OP for normal instances. As well as the ward would only help purely against spike dmg. Of course, considering how much we get one shotted nowdays. The ward size would have to have a fairly large size. And of course, it should ward against all types of dmg. I recall that i was already complaining about the poorly perfoming myth click during SF. But people mainly laughed at me back then. As mentioned earlier, it should ward against all types of dmg. Our other myth buff that gives us 300% hate gain from our heal portion of lifetaps. It was all good and working when we still could crit heal. But after the figher crit heal nerf, they unintentionally/intentionally crippled it in the progress aswell. It really does close to nothing nowdays. Im personaly not certain what could be improved with this ability without wrecking other aspects out of controll.
