How many of you alternate between group play, solo play, and small group play? I know I do, and what shocks me is just how different it is. Granted when you duo as a priest class, you double as not only a healer but a DPS, so the group feels different, but the xp reward is definately different. SoE made it clear that they wanted grouping to be the most efficient way to xp, but that definately seems to have gone awry. Duoing or tiroing white/yellow ^^ mobs is an unbelievable way to move that xp bar. I really noticed the difference when we made alts (as it is practically impossible to duo safely with a mage/fighter combo) to a monk and fury. Now, we can take white (and if we are really lucky) yellow ^^ mobs. Each one of those kills is worth something crazy... like 3% xp (in your 20's, early 30's) if you have vitality. In trio play, you can take the same mobs more quickly and more efficinetly, thus making the minor decrease in XP negligable. Plus, you can hit the holy trinity in trio play which as everyone knows is tank, healer, dps. By the time you extend that group out to 6, and you are killing white/yellow ^^ mobs, forget it. The bar moves very very slowly in comparison, even though there is less downtime. I propose changes that make grouping for xp more appealing. As it goes now, soloing can be cumbersome, and full groups can be a mess with little incentive, so in my experience 2-3 people in a group is the way to go for optimum xp. Don't get me wrong, people will still group for large quests and because being in a full group can be quite fun. However, it does not appear to me that xp is an incentive for full groups. The way this was handeled in DAoC (which, granted is a VERY different game) was that xp gains were capped. Thus, no matter what you did or killed, the xp gain you could get from one mob was capped at a certin amount. That way, when you grouped and were hitting the xp cap, you were getting more xp than you would as a solo/duo. I don't know that an xp cap is the right solution for EQ2, but it is a plausible notion for discussion. Message Edited by Shunidar on 04-26-2005 08:22 AM
I misunderstood the title of this post at first. I thought it would be a commentary on Overlands mob pops (pls make more group friendly!). As far as exp rates in full groups, relative to trio, a good full group (which, honestly, probably means not a pickup group) is significantly faster exp per hour than even a great trio. I have done a lot of exping in a tight trio, as well as full group. To be honest, the exp moves so fast in this game that I have never even had a reason to compare things close enough to figure out what kind of bonuses and splitting methods are used in this game. All I know is that exp is always extremely fast regardless. Imo this game rewards exploration and being adventurous much more than it rewards min/maxing your exp per hour. But different folks have different playstyles. =)
Well, Zindi and I play as a duo 90% of the time, are in our low 40's and by my view, are quite casual players XP wise. Basically, we fight blue / green solo mobs most of the time, ocassionally white / yellow solo mobs when we can find them and almost never fight group mobs, as they kick our butt in seconds as a wiz / defiler combo. Although, occassionally the green / blue one arrow mobs are ok for us, if root holds... but those cons are pretty rare. Anyhow, point being, we seem to level faster than most as a duo. Yeah we play almost daily, but a great amount of our time is mostly spent hanging out and very little spent on actual hunting, but we somehow have managed to pretty much stay with/ahead of the pack XP wise. So, I will have to say, that the XP gain in a duo is pretty nice. We also noticed a steep dropoff when we add a 3rd or more, even when fighting tougher group mobs and when in a group, can rarely match the rate of XP gain we get doing solo blues as a duo. Granted, our method of hunting isn't exactly the most exciting, but most of the exciting stuff is out of our reach anyways, as we can not take the hits it tends to dish out, so we make do with what we can do.
hehe, by the same token, you should bring a 40ish healer out with zaks and I. I think you would be surprised how much faster the xp piles on. The only way I could really see the xp moving any faster in a full group would be with a group of 4 dps, 1 tank, 1 healer. Otherwise, a good healer/tank/dps combo is pretty amazing xp. It was said above that no matter what group you are in, the xp seems to fly by, and I can't help but agree. The only reason it doesn't bother me so much is because I assume they will increase the level cap and progression through higher levels will be, of course, slower. Perhaps the above poster is right in that the xp moves fast now matter what group you are in, and thus perhaps there is no reason to worry how fast the xp bar moves.
Is it weird to respond to your own thoughts? hehehe, perhaps what I am really noticing is that I am usually the only DPS in my groups. Hmmm... wasn't Kwong who said that 50% or so of test were fighter archetypes? And if this is true, and its all I am really seeing, does it raise questions about the necessity of additional tanks in a group? Hmmmm... Message Edited by Shunidar on 04-27-2005 07:03 AM
Maybe it's just certain duos? I hate to make this a class balance issue, but I definitely don't want SOE think that any duo with a healer can do white++ because they stated it is not the intention. Kwoung and I (Defiler and Wizard) cannot even take blue ++ (we did one and won very very narrowly after combat change 2.0). White/Yellow++ is something we have never been able to touch. That's why Kwuong is off to make a guardian.
I can't even take a gray++. well at least the LT in Zek and his friends. They kill my wards in like 2 hits. I have a book to kill this guy. There is only 1 at a time. And i have to kill a total of 30 of them. =( Kaida lvl 47 defiler Test
I can't even take a gray++. well at least the LT in Zek and his friends. They kill my wards in like 2 hits. I have a book to kill this guy. There is only 1 at a time. And i have to kill a total of 30 of them. =( Kaida lvl 47 defiler Test
Imo this game rewards exploration and being adventurous much more than it rewards min/maxing your exp per hour. how exactly does trhe game reward exploration again? Message Edited by Miral on 05-01-2005 07:00 AM
If you sit in one place and grind non-stop you will burn through your vitality quickly. If you are on the move and exploring everything around you, you get quest exp and discovery dings, both of which come for "free" in the sense that they do not deplete vitality. We had two people in our guild who would go to RoV every night, try to build a good pickup group, and grind for 5 or 6 hours. Meanwhile the rest of us would just get together, roam through Nek forest, clear out quests, etc. We should have had a lot of "downtime" from all the running back and forth.. and yet we leveled as fast or faster than the people that chose to stay trapped in one place every night. This, again, is part of the reason that I object to the extent of the current down-tiering. All it did from my guild's point of view is force us into the oldschool notion of grinding for hours inside of dungeons.. I considered it progressive that this game didn't force you to do that but now it seems we have taken a step backwards.
Zindi and I generally grind, but since about level 30, quests to kill the stuff we are fighting (or nearby mobs) drop frequently off our grind mobs. So basically, we are questing while we grind most of the time. Like just yesterday, we got and completed 3 new quests each while gringing in Zek... discovery XP btw, is long gone post 30, it is pretty infrequent and gives no noticable XP on the rare occassion it does happen. BTW, post 40 you are very hard pressed to burn through your vitality quickly, as XP rolls in pretty slow. Message Edited by Kwoung on 05-02-2005 07:02 PM
It's interesting that you feel that way. The people in my guild that are 40+, including myself, have all found the exact opposite to be true. Vitality was a permanent fixture of our gaming lives up until 40, meaning that it was almost never used up unless we go more than a level's worth of exp per night. Post-40, vitality no longer lasts an entire level, and yet you can level every bit as fast at 41 as you could at 21, provided you are in the right spot doing the right things. Therefore, post-40 is the first time that many of us have faced extended playtime without much vitality.
well discovery bonus is just what, 1% per poi? and I wouldn't consider xp that doesnt use vitality "free"... all it reall is is xp that doesnt have bonuses applied to it... personally i just ignore vitality... if i have it, i gain extra xp, and if i dont, i dont... while grinding you gain vitality every hour, enough for about 10% of a level i think it is... once you get up in levels you can end up with vitality always at the same amount heh
Heh well going back to the topic of the thread.. I noticed today they downtiered the NEWBIE zones. Oakmyst was just much too difficult I suppose.... At this point I think SOE has made it pretty clear that, if you are a player that likes cooperation or teamwork, you should be hidden deep within the game's dungeons, and not be anywhere near the vast majority of the content, which is Overlands. Either that, or just socialize with your friends via chat or teamspeak, but be sure not to group with more than one of them at a time.
I disagree. It's only in the last week that I've started playing grouped with any regularity (before I only did it when I really, really had to; I was probably 85% solo, 14% duo and 1% group play), and in the overland zones where I've been -- the Steppes and Nektulos -- there have been a decent mixture of solo and heroic mobs, and grouping has proved a huge XP rush. I was stuck on level 27 for nearly three weeks (because of combat changes back and forth, I was tradeskilling or leveling verrrrrry sloowwwwwwlly), but I joined a group Friday at 29% of level 27, and played for much of the weekend grouped, and as of last night I'm 75% of the way through 29. Playing grouped in the T3 overland zones has been fantastic for XP and lots of fun to do. This is the first time since I was on the IoR that I've actually seen the little arrow that shows where vitality stops. So as a player that enjoys both groups and solo play, I have to say that really, the overland zones I've been in (still waiting for a boat group to form for EL and Zek) have been very good for both. Grouping is faster than soloing, that's for sure... but yeah, I do wish it would change a little for playing duos. When I play with Arethor I feel like we grind for hours without getting anywhere; I don't have that same feeling when I solo. It might all be in my head, but that is how it feels.
Well you had said in your post that a full group is a mess. Basically our group is a tried and tested solid fighting machine. We try and take on some of the toughest stuff all the time, like taking on level 45 Epic x2 with 5 people, or some green epic x3 with 6. Some things aren't always the greatest. Like the 4 hour clear to Solusek's Eye then having to evac 5 feet from the portal. Mistakes are made. But it's alot of fun overall. Killing just seems too slow otherwise Sometimes I group with just Klunky (level 46/47 Templar). And the exp isn't that bad, but the kills take long enough that overall, it's not as good as grouping experience. But it's more instant experience...or feels like more experience with each kill. but it's not in the long run. I mean no offense to yourself or Zaks, but myself and the rest of the group I'm in has skyrocketed in levels over the past month. Passing most others on the server. Now, atm, I just moved an will be out of the game for a week (maybe 2). So that slows me down. But I use this as an example to say that full groups are alot of fun with the right team and they are great experience. Duo's and the like are fun too at times. I can't stand solo'ing though....it's about as fun as crafting is for me. I'm not saying I'm the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] or anything, I've just been very lucky to have a group of people I can grind with practically every single day. Message Edited by Eelyen on 05-04-2005 12:53 PM
