http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=3&message.id=6884 If this is true (and I believe Noah, spoken to him in game a few times) then the balance has shifted the complete opposite way it was. If raid mobs are missing guardians entirely then this is like the agility bug when we just didn't get hit. Combine them getting missed a ton with their incredible mitigation and no wonder they are the choice for MT raid mobs.
He commented that he tanked a raid mob in feerott without *ANY OF HIS EQUIPMENT ON* except for his weapons, and he still didn't get touched.... That is something to be concerned about.. :/
[FAAR-NERFED!]... He's is tanking x4 mobs with 12 without his gear on? I dont see why he wouldn't be telling the truth :/ What he have to gain?
Yes. If they have better mitigation than us AND are evading almost every attack, that is a definate and HUGE problem.
Sence we do not know how mitigation really works, they could be mitigating the damage to 0 and its reading as a miss, not sure why they would be evading the attacks. We dont knwo the group makeup also. I was grouped with a cleric for the first time today, sence the last patch, and the healing procs were gaining ground on me for the first time ever. I sence a reduction in the future. They really need to stop with all the back and forth, they should leave things as they are for now, find out what is wrong, test, adjust, test again, adjust, test and maybe 2-3 months later go live.
when you dont adjust often, and leave it for months, people will drop the game if they are playing a "broken" class, as they believe that they wont be fixed in the near future. imo SOE has no choice but to do the "small and often" tennis game of buff/nerfing classes to strike a balance. I doubt any real balance is coming any time soon tho, the only thing to do is post where the imbalances are, and they will be fixed in due course. (should soe notice us ;d)
You're right Mama, there certainly will be a reduction in the future. More balancing is certainly in order, from my experiences tanking post patch 3 a cleric is by far the best choice for healing. Their reactives keep me at 100% for an insanely long time, and they rarely fall below 80% mana.
I have been seeing some other tanks pull a higher Mob hit percentage on parser since last patch myself. they usally avoid 10%-15% more then me. Wether the parser is nutso (as I thought till saw this) or I need to do alot more testing its really fubar. Only 2 tanks I have run this on tho are Pally and Guardian. I think the fact we are evading less it seems then a few if not more plate class is where the gap in our tanking ability may be. But it seems so far to stand true for me. I do take a better smack tho and spike dmg is less Unless some $&^&#^ wizzie mob randoms some 2k+ nuke spell with is very annoying on a blue con lmao Hope others are not seeing the same in combat
If ANY plate class is evading better than a brawler class, its broken. Period, no discussion. That is a huge imbalance. Mama, I don't think mitigation lessens hits all the way to 0, so I doubt its that. Could be, but I think they are just evading period.
I have not noticed mobs hitting for 0 damage, fighting greys, I get hit for 1 point and missed a lot, suggesting that if damage is mitagated to 0 it reads as a miss.
On second note there are potions that increase mitigation, he may be under some undiusclosed spell effect. I have not noticed guardians being immune to attack.
Er... So this is why I've been seeing various non monk tanks I know running around naked just carrying a weapon. Every time I've asked them why they arent wearing ANYTHING, they will usually respond with "I had my armor stolen by a siren." I had yet to get an answer that made sense and I've been seeing this ALOT lately. I was fairly confused up until reading that post. I've seen normally plate laden tanks naked and fighting no fewer than a dozen times over the last few days.
Did you check out this guys equipment? He has close to, if not, the best equipment in game. I'm very sceptical about his claims of tanking while naked. Probably one of those, I have to see it to believe it kind of things. One wonders if the same thing would be true for any fighter class. With the best equipment and support, possibly anyone of us could do this.
Noah is my husband. He has indeed tanked every epic mob that our guild has come accross in this game, and very well most of the time. He did indeed tank Vaz'Gok naked towards the end of the fight, and I saw no noticeable difference in the hits that he took, nor did I need to throw heals at him. Understand that, like he stated, once an epic mob's power is drained, they're usually pu$$ycats as far as difficulty goes, unless their inherant special attack (with a unique name, that is cast without power use) is really hard hitting. Raid mobs should have consistent regular damage output to keep everyone from going to sleep as we fight. Sure, most of us are very well equipped, but great gear doesn't do squat for you if you're not a smart player. If Noah and the rest of our main raid group were a bunch of idiots, we wouldn't have the success we've had. That's all beside the point, though. A final word on whether any fighter class could tank this way. Here's where both sides of the argument start to weigh more evenly to me. On the one hand, Noah has some of the best gear in the game, and a very high defense when buffed right, yet he could probably tank several raid mobs without all of this uber gear, and the only problem would be him running out of power too quickly to taunt. Here it seems that raid mobs are in need of tuning as far as consistent damage goes. For another thing, we've shown that raid mobs do not do consistent damage, and aside from a devastating AE or barrage, aren't that tough to take down once you get a simple strat to them. But conversely, I've seen every other fighter archetype in our raid (including Guardians) die in two ripostes on the off chance the mob turns away from Noah. Our other fighters are well equipped too. We're not a "throw all the uber loot at the main tank cuz he's the one that matters" kind of guild. If our well-equipped Bruisers (we don't have any high lvl monks :smileysad: ) or Berserkers or SK's tried to main tank these mobs, they'd get pummeled. So what's the key here? Good gear? Good buffs? Or is this just further indication of the disparity between the tanking classes? I don't want to draw conclusions just yet. I just wanted to lay out what I've seen for you guys to flesh out Noah's argument a bit. I can't choose a side because I'm so close to both. I want monks to tank well, and with their unique tanking style, but I don't want Guardians to take a hit in tanking ability either. Regards,
Thank you for the information Eloora. This is something that needs to be thought through and tested before rash judgements and accusations go flying about. I don't want any class nerfed, and if there is too much of an uproar, I fear that is just what SoE will do.
well gage my bestest buddy ole poster pal, one thing that i wanna shed light on is a fact that we tend to ignore when looking at damage stats etc. its all about numbers- everything that happens in game or even running has a number attatched to it. cause in a full grp buffed to max - monks/bruisers may go 6/10 fights without being touched= guards at the same level usually take a somewhat constant stream of damage.... so saying that i guess im tryin to say that im sure that when they didnt soft cap skills -= and when they didnt cap ac- resistances - and allowed them to run for the long term of the game saying persay that its supposed to reach lvl150-200... they didnt expect such outrageous numbers in raids as every classes buffs and skills stack to tremendous values. heck i never imagined reaching 200 str at level 36??? which consequently makes a big difference in my dps of course. so relating that to my point- a tank with wiz buffs- enchanter buffs- shrug off from a bruiser- monk buffs- tymp- defliler = etc etc etc etc - not to mention the song boys- dirge and troubs- and by the time the mob is debuffed to high heck... you cant expect the difference to be that far- its about right being that all these buffs are stacking in raid- conclusion and ex.. in a fight where im not MT - and i let the plate take it and go dps mode- if i use staggering stance - 25% avoidance to MT. and hit the MT w/ eye gouge -- along with the healers debuffs etc. at lvl 35- mobs cant land hits-= when they do, its not for much after they have -20attack from myself and the scouts class in grp- then weakness debuff -30 str from the caster... just doesnt add up and will give the results in question here without a doubt everytime.... ps. one last thing -- high AC = misses in most cases. dont know if you ever played eq1- but the beauty of twinking a warrior was that you wouldnt get hit at all= not that you would get hit for small amts at a time which is what we refer to as mitigation(and the expected result_)= same example here- the same barage hits almost everyone in grp for X amount= 800+/- dmg just reflects diffrent on a casters HP bar as opposed to a plate or monkish tanks bar. (for the most part in my experiences) yeah ac does = mitigation = but there is no real disparity that would truly equal avoidance unless they gave us 5-6 different ways to block attacks outside of the obvious blocks parrys and riposte. the consistent 3 are given to both tank types- so there will be a thin line either way. Message Edited by SageMarrow on 02-25-2005 06:37 PM
I understand Mystique and I'm not trying to destroy the guardian class (or any other class) and I have no personal vendetta against Noah (he cracks me up in cross server tells). My only point was that if guardians and other tanks are in fact able to avoid/parry/block the majority of attacks from even a lvl 58 mob because of armor/buffs etc whatever, then it needs to be looked at. They should use mitigation for their defense, that is how they are designed; if they can successfuly tank even epic encounters w/o having to rely on their main line of defense, its very obvious SOMETHING is weird. Whether its changing hardcaps, softcaps, the way stuff works, mobs, anything. I just want it looked at if this is indeed a repeatable scenario. Its hard enough trying to get balanced footing as tanks with the guardians without them having such good defense that their mitigation is hardly needed or used. Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 02-25-2005 07:49 PM
You apperently are still maiking the assumption that a miss is the result of avoidence. How often are you hit for 0 damage? I am getting the indication that if the damge is mitigated to 0 it reads as a miss. In addition this seems to be happening after the mitigation adjustment, further proving this theory.
