Increase ridiculously too low drop rate

Deson wrote:

I agree...
A mage with a Ring of Readiness is not some big mage in a guild that is absolutly awesome and I want to be just like him... he is a mage that killed an easy mob at the end of a near trivial zone and got lucky on the RNG (or he had lots of plat).
IMO loot distribution would be far better working based on difficulty of task * time investment, with any random forces being set to the side as secondary concerns.
If you want an awesome item, you don't get it by killing an easy mob 62.5 times, you get it by killing a hard mob 10 times. After those 10 kills, the item is guarenteed to be yours (although there may well be other items that make you want to go back and kill the mob 10 more times).

Kigneer wrote:

I fail to see how either of your two last posts relate to the topic or what you quoted.
Noaani wrote:

I'd have to see it at work but like I said, I loved LDoN points and shards. There still needs to be some high quality random loot though to keep people from being the same and as non-guaranteed motivation.

Or you could all stop obsessing over min-maxing your character builds and just, you know, play the game as an actual adventure. Where you head into dungeons with a group of friends without knowing in advance what loot you might find there.
I have deliberately avoided finding out what are the "best" items available for any of my characters. I can happily join a group for any instance, have fun running through the instance, and if I get any loot I can use that's a nice bonus. Without knowing what items might drop, every chest has exciting possibilities, but I don't get upset over missing out on specific "uber item X" that I didn't even know about to begin with.
Too much out-of-game information has ruined the MMO experience, IMO.

Deson wrote:

My preferance for keeping people from being the same is in creating enough items that are of equal quality, but different. The issue with doing this in EQ2 is that it requires an in depth knowledge of each of the 24 classes, something that no single person has.
It is possible to make 3 or 4 pieces of gear for each slot, each of which are totally different, but none of which are better than any of the others. its clearly not possible with the current itemization system they use for this game, but that doesn't stop it being possible.

Noaani wrote:

For EQ2 the only way that works is based on group setup. Otherwise, one combo for whatever reason will emerge as the most commonly bought( or the most commonly bought will force group setups). Randomness is the only force strong enough to prevent homogeniety in EQ2. Besides that, having them all buyable ruins that sense of uniqueness that comes from getting a rare drop.

Deson wrote:

That depends totally on the cost of buying the items, or having them made, as my preferance would be.
As to creating ways of allowing players to buy any item they want, yet everyone not wearing exactly the same gear (a situation raiders are in), the key is in limiting the number of items a player can buy.
The fact that it is avalible for sle on a merchant does not mean everyone has access to it, nor does the fact an item is able to be crafted. Even if void shards are the currency of choice, how many people will go out and farm 1200 shards to have 4 fabled items made?
Edit: while gray shards exist: everyone. Gray shards need to be kicked in the head.

Noaani wrote:

The costs have to be the same if the items are equal.
If you want to limit the buyer's access...good luck. Limited buy merchants almost defeat the point in even having this conversation.Great in theory, very bad idea outside of seasonal quests and the like.
Even without grey shards, 1200 shards is just time consuming;everyone at that play level will still be homogenous in the end. You just can't get around the power of random.

Deson wrote:

So time consuming that most players won't have them until the next expansion.
By the time players have obtained T1 and T2 shard armour (essential for non raiders, with shoulders being essential to a raider until they get their pattern), a player has already spent 170 shards, assuming they use the merchant. Add on 4 fabled items at 300 shards each and you have 1370 shards.
Assuming a player runs 3 instances a day, with the DD being one of those 3/4ths of the time, it will take them 203 days to attain that.
Add alts to the picture and things get more interesting...
For a non casual player, this is not an issue. However, a non casual player will have those items reguardless, whether through having them drop or buying the loot rights. A casual player, on the other hand, is simply not going to run 3 instances a night, every night, for 203 days without a break.
Now add to all of this the fact that there is(n't but should be) at least 8 fabled items desired by each class, you have a system where not only are players not all the same, but people are able to work towards their rewards at their own pace.

Noaani wrote:

Any casual player that would work up to any one of those fabled rewards would work to all of them.Of course, no hard core player is going to work 3 instances a night, every night for 203 days without a break so it actually sounds like a worse mechanic than the current.Assuming some would though, if there is a preferred pattern people will still follow it. You'll need random loot thrown in to actually encourage people to make different decisions on otherwise attainable gear. You just aren't going to get past the need for random loot. Every argument about actual choice is going to have a mass pattern emerge because many people have a sense of rationality and those that don't tend to follow those that seem to. Random breaks those choices up based on who gets the loot/event.
To be clear I'm not arguing against the pricing or the concept, just making the point you'll still need the "lotto" to keep things interesting.

Deson wrote:

Don't forget, this is in addition to the current mechanic. Its providing an alternate means, not replacing.

Noaani wrote:

Alternate means yes but you'll still need a purely random portion otherwise, all you are doing is staggering out the time for homogeneity.

Deson wrote:

The purely random portion is the fact that the item can still drop. Furthermore, with the numbers presented, there is a 99.95% chance that the item WILL drop at least once in the time it takes you to earn it via other means, assuming you only run the instance it drops in.

Noaani wrote:

The chance that it can drop while there is a guaranteed method of acquisition is not purely random in context of this discussion. Purely random is saying the lotto is the only way to get it and that kind of loot breaks monotony. It's nice to know it's there and run for it if you want it but, since you have comparable options, it's not nearly as frustrating and the motivating effect is enhanced for those so inclined.

Deson wrote:

You made a statement of how I would prefer that a mythical had 1.6% chance to drop. I gave you examples that just playing another MMO is even tougher on successfully accomplishing even ordinary things -- and that's not even raiding, only crafting. Drop rates in EQ2 is more than successfully completing combines in crafting for some MMOs, that can lose alot more than time and repair bills.
In EQ2 folks want things as instantly as possible, meanwhile complain how tough it is to be a raider. The only toughness in EQ2 for a raider is time and having a repair bill -- you don't lose 15hr days per combine; you don't lose fabled T4 gear or money in PvE (just imagine going to a raid zone, you're ambushed at sea to not only sink your 1000pp ship, while boarding the pirates can take your 1000pp gear...and this can happen weekly or even daily...and tomorrow the same pirates or another guild storms your port city and takes your 5000pp guild base, too. You don't hear me crying here about raiding being tough, a-t a-l-l); even crafting failures the rares are saved; and you sure don't have to buy $20 of health pots to survive end-game bosses EACH TIME.
There's tough, and there's tough.

Kigneer wrote:

EQ2s economy and rewards systems are not set up to support this, but I would love to see a fantasy MMO that has the economic systems that EVE has (including the piracy).

Kigneer wrote:

I made no such statement and advocate to continue to have rare loot however, the reason your statement is out of place is because EQ2's culture and design developed specifically against the idea of hardcore.Your comment is also out of context because the discussion has nothing to do with content difficulty. The entire thread has discussed the troubles with random reward systems and the idea that a shard like system could give a more predictable advancement.

Not to de-rail the topic or anything but wasn't it mentioned that the reason void shards were introduced to TSO was to keep from having to camp/run the same zones over and over again to get the dropped items you were looking for which was one of the major frustrations the player base had with ROK and RE2?

Loxus@Everfrost wrote:

They removed the majority of drops. They can't remove them all or people will only do Deep Forge until they get all the gear they want via shards and then they'll what? Quit?

Sorry for beating a dead horse.
Yes, anyway, I have enjoyed rerunning instances as Gaylon enjoys.
I have gone to almost Evernight Abbey and Deep Forge 5days per 1week currently.
Anyway, I've enjoyed.
But at the same time, I'm about to give up and burn out.
Items which I want haven't dropped.
When Exquisite box dropped in Evernight Abbey some time ago after GU52, I lost /ran.
Also tonight, Exquisite box dropped in Evernight Abbey.
But that box had only Master scroll.
Yeah, running an instance with guildies or friends is fun.
I agree.
But at the same time, there are limits to everything.
If an item which you want hasn't dropped for very long time, which may be different for different people, it will become painful and frustrating....
8 months have passed since TSO launched.
But I haven't gotton any items of 1.6% drop rate.
Whether or not, I will rerun Evernight Abbey and Deep Forge.
All I want to see in the next expansion is that Noaani or other posters' ideas will be adopted.
Whether or not, some guaranteed ways to get items is needed, imo.
Rerunning instances again and again day after day is silly and ridiculous.
I hope devs to adopt some guaranteed ways to get items.
Hopefully.

Nero wrote:

Hopefully NOT.
I do not look forward to the day where everything in EQ2 is "guaranteed".
This whole "entitlement" belief that players have ruining these games.