Illusionists DON'T accept our new roles

QUOTE - “The key is to treat it just like every other ability, and spread it around a bit. That was their "mistake" in EQ1- thre was only one class that was effective at crowd control.”

While I agree with your overall opinion that it can be done, I disagree with you on why it is not done. They do not want mezz as a viable tool (whether every class has it or not) because it is considered to have a “devastatingly trivializing” effect on encounters. (this is not just SOE by the way – it appears to be the accepted “wisdom” in the industry today)

They feel that if mezz works, players will no longer be forced to face multiple mobs. So they (the Devs) are then forced to balance the game to a “one mob at a time” dynamic. They simply feel this restricts them too much in their ability to create fresh and innovative content.

Not saying I agree, but that is what the argument seems to be anyway.

I agree, that probably is how they think, but again it's only due to lack of creativity. If they want to have an encounter with multiple mobs, then put more mobs in the encounter than can be effectively mezed, and make them a bit weaker individually than a single-mob encounter. Heck, that's exactly what they do in EQ2 anyway. In groups you're usually fighting either groups of v or no arrow mobs, or one or a couple ^ or ^^ heroic mobs, or a mixed group with one very powerful "leader" and a bunch of weaker underlings. I'm not saying they have to make enchanters so good that we can mez every mob in an encounter and make things trivial, but they could definitely balance things so that we get to enjoy the style of gameplay we like, they get to have a wide range of encounter types, and we don't become necessary for every group. Like I said, I know it's not easy, which is why no one wants to do it, but I believe it is possible.

PigLick

I think they tried to do this in the first place. Sorc got much better stuns and roots than we did. They were actually better at EQ2 style CC than we were.
With the Re-vamp they took most of the Corc stuns and roots away and toned down the effectivness of what is left. So they say.
It appears that they are trying to remove all CC ability across the board. Why, I do not know. I think they are desperately trying to make sure that no encounter can be trivialized so getting rid of this ability and group invis will make that easier to manage. However, there will always be some class or some ability to trivialize anything. We will always find a way.
I think they just need to leave us with our ability and change content to balance the trivialization.
i.e. instead of nerfing group invis to the point noone uses it, add more see invis mobs and have it drop at random from time to time. Perhaps add a 'smell' skill to certain creature types. Wolves in Perma for example. Group invis works fine, but they have a chance to smell you and it will drop. Bang...better have mez ready. That kind of stuff makes the game fun and challenging. Nerfing and removing possibilities waters it down.
i.e. add unmezzable mobs, uncharmable mobs, unstunnable mobs etc. If an ability will be too powerful somewhere, limit it there. Micro manage the encounters as you go.

Both players and Dev would have a whole lot more fun with that philosophy.
Message Edited by SunTsu on 08-11-2005 10:33 AM

Well all i know is when i get invited into a group they expect good CC and Breeze and sometimes group invis. If u take those away from us and give us dps why would a group pick us to group with when they can get better dps like a wiz and ect. Every group im in depending where we are at the time is heavely dependant on CC. When i made my enc i knew what i was getting into from playing encs in the other eqs (mainly eqoa) that we were a support class like healers and that we wernt suppose to do dps like true dps characters. Now for a game that has alot of solo content (splitpaw ect.) we were haveing a hard time due to us not really haveing self defenses (yea we can nuke, mez, some find it fun to be in battle with one mob for 30+ minutes most of us didnt). I complained about the soloing for encs but i was never asking for more dps what i wanted was for my original spells to be better than what they were mean stuns lasting longer than 3 seconds and so on. I like the idea of the illusionary pet (except for the part where i cant use while in group due to the rediculous consintration it takes up) which i thought we should of had from the begining but to nerf our main support spells (the main reason most of us picked enchanters to play) and to change our class around so much that u might as well rename the class. I'll adapt to the new changes but it wasnt what i wanted for my enc. There was nothing wrong with mezes why fix something that aint broke? There was nothing wrong with breeze or group invis, it didnt overpower us for other classes had same spells that were just as effective. Thing is Soe has always messed up on enchanters, i dont think they really know what a enchanter is even tho the definition is right in the name. You would think that after all these years working on eq1 and eqoa that they would finally figure it out but like someone previously said this is SOE we are talking about. Im not happy about the changes but with a 50 illusionist and not wanting to reroll a true dps character and start all over and to do all the heritage quest and everything else i have no chose but to adapt. AS for breeze it is a blessing that they are making it a group buff since rebuffing everyone every 15 mins was a drag but at the same time it is a curse due to not being able to breeze a raid which will be needing more than one enc now which is dam near impossible to find 2 or more encs. I wonder if these changes will make ppl want to be a enc therefore increaseing the number of encs around on the server, guess time will only tell. personally i see the enc population is going to dwindle down to only the the few ppl determine to make their class work.
Thats my 2 copper for the day

i changed my mind
Message Edited by Intercept on 08-12-200502:38 AM
Message Edited by Intercept on 08-12-2005 02:38 AM

Global changes to keep in mind regarding the changes:
- AE for all damage classes looks to be being increased across the board. And it's not just a small increase, but a major bump. That means that mez as a form of Crowd Control is really going to be completely useless except for adds. Okay, you might use it if you had 3 fighters and 2 priests, but how common is THAT going to be with the restriction of fighters to "mostly tank". When the predator is AEing and the rogue is AEing and the conjuror pet is AEing and the conjuror is AEing, you'd be better off AEing yourself, not mezzing a mob and actually hurting group DPS.
- Stuns and stifles are still pretty effective (outside of epic mobs) and those are obviously much more useful if AEing becomes a primary form of damage.
- Most of the other "serious nerfs" reflect changes to the whole game (Group Invis, mana regen, concentration) etc. that affect all classes with those abilities, not just illusionists. Enchanter mana regen may have got majorly lowered, but it's still better than many others, who were majorly lowered as well.
It's really pretty impossible to compare Live to Test without playing on Test, since the global changes to the entire combat structure make for a completely different dynamic.
Edit: Early "Submit Post"
Message Edited by tharvey on 08-17-2005 12:10 PM

Duplicate post.

Message Edited by tharvey on 08-17-2005 12:11 PM

Well....

My suggestion is just wait, Drak seems to be the most even in his assesments. What I have begun doing to prepare, is stacking up on Master I's and also stacking up on alternative gear sets. For every slot, I have begun getting opposite stat equip for, even fables, So I can have a INT based item and a Power heavy item for each different slot. Meaning I have Undead Chef Mitts for hands with Agi and Power, as well as the satin whatevers with int and sta.,.... trying to do that for each slot, just in case it turns out one is good for only certain encounters or etc etc etc... just best to be prepared..

On another note, who else is sick as hell of the daily run through of CL, ANT, FT, Drayek, and doing the Prismatic quest for the 1989999 time?

I'm sick of it and its only my 1,120,001 time :smileytongue: Fire and Ice Drakota annoy me the most (non loot droping pricks) along with the kazillon trips to see naggy.

Meh, Feerrott is a great instance. Generally I'm in the top 6 of DPS on that fight because of AoEs, it's pretty fun beating out wizards

Fire&Ice is the only annoying part about it, and it's only because of all the crap mobs one has to fight, that drop nothing. Other than that, well the instances are only as fun as you make it out to be. If you're not having fun anymore, why don't you quit?

Been an enchanter / illusionist for a majority of my everquest / everquest 2 career and personally my thoughts are as follows:

http://www.relicguild.com/viewtopic.php?p=6235#6235

During the course of my time playing the class i have experienced most of the things illusionists do, i am by no means ubar at all. However, in my view illusionists are not dps they are utility. If the folks at SoE want to change that along with alot of other things thats fine. I'll give it a fair month then after that all bets are off and possibly the two accounts i hold as well.


Fazuno Chantypants
One extermely annoyed illusionist
unrest

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Yea, could you copy what you said to this forum?