Here is the evidence: -------------- We realize that Coercer charm is too unreliable, and the spell folks are working on it. Control spells are receiving a thorough pass to address issues like this. =========================== Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard Game Designer, EverQuest II http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spellart&message.id=64067#M64067 -------------------- and this report from the community summit: "It seems mages will get the biggest spanking from the future nerf paddle, though mages profitted overmuch from the changes in the first place by any reasonable assessment. Enjoy that 50-second root that cycles every 6 seconds while it lasts, for soon the chain-permaroot will be no more." http://eq2.tentonhammer.com/index.p...ess&file=index&func=display&ceid=610&meid=241 ------------------- Personally, I don't believe our root deserves to get nerfed. I admit to using it to solo some heroics without getting hit. However, I also die doing this maybe 20% of the time to multiple resists (gambling on a recast instead of immediately running away, or fighting in an area with too many mobs to run away), and run away maybe another 20% of the time. The 60% of the time I am successful, I get no faster exp or loot than killing multi-mob solo encounters, because it takes a lot longer to kill them. I know from chain killing such mobs in a group that the chest drop rate is pretty low and the loot mediocre, and doing them solo is no way to rake in the loot. The only real reason to do this is to finish quests solo. The problem will be, if they nerf our root, how do we solo? The combat update heavily nerfed my avoidance and durability, I die very quick now when a mob starts beating on me. Back to mezz/nuke? Yuck. If we have to stick to mobs our personae can tank, that takes us back to a pretty feeble soloer. I dont think beefing up our personae's tanking ability is the right answer, as we are not summoners. For tougher mobs, root based soloing with a lot of risk if it resists is the right balance for us, in my opinion. I think the risk/reward is currently fine on our soloing with root as it stands. Message Edited by Roxxanne on 10-12-2005 11:08 AM
If they nerfed root, our solo ability would go out the window. Our best root has a 25 second duration with a 10 second recast. Not nearly as skewed as whatever root the community summit recap was talking about (although, he may have been exaggerating to enhance a point). I'd really hate to see one of our more valuable soloing assets get nerfed. We are supposed to have the most powerful crowd control spells in the game, after all.
Actually, they weren't exaggerating. They were talking about Wizard's AoE root. Which is a 50 second root, on a 6 second timer, HOWEVER it also has a huge chance of breaking upon damage. My bet, our root won't get changed.
actually the recast timer on the sorcerer AE root was increased within the first week after combat changes went live as far as i know. think its 20 sec now with a max duration of about 50 sec or something like that. but of course they still have their single target roots. who also still has a 50 sec duration root on a fast recast are some healer classes (and maybe summoner? ) enchanter always only got a relative short duration root. it was 18sec before CU, now its a bit longer but still nothing close to what other classes get and our recast is longer. i wouldnt bet though that a change to root will not have some impact on enchanter root as well. as ppl usually connect root with mage class, they will usually also only complain about root of mages. (or complain that mages with their high dps in combination with root are to strong). for that reason i could imagine that only mage root, including enchanter root, will get changed and healer root stay untouched. Guess we will see soon enough. Message Edited by zitha on 10-12-2005 02:59 PM
Am I missing something? It seems like I am. I admit that after experimenting with the doppleganger, I haven't went back to the root/DoT/nuke strategy that I used to use to solo. But, I haven't used root since the CU. I solo just fine, although I rarely try soloing heroics. I assume that attacking still breaks root, which would limit my DPS fairly severely - I can't send the pet, or use the prismatic line, or the construct without breaking the root. Hence, I haven't used it. Is this not the case? Zebsen Level 45 illusionist Lavastorm
Nope, not the case. Enchanter roots no longer break on damage, but have a periodic chance to break. They will usually last the full duration, though the chance decreases the higher the mob relative to you. So you can root and nuke away and it won't affect the duration of your root one bit. PigLick
PigLick is correct. Root does not break on damage anymore. You're actually limiting your DPS output by NOT using your root (due to aggro management issues).
I have been using the root to help with the main tank taunt issues (ie resists). After i mez a mob and we finish the mob we are on , i will root the next one i want the tank to take, this gives him a visible idea of which mob i want him to attack and also makes it so if his taunts gets resisted the mob doesnt beeline to me. I also use it when solo, I will group mez a 3-4 mob group, root one and send in pet, help with Ho/Prismatic/dots, then root next in line, rinse repeat. Really keeps the amount of damage done to me down.
Thanks a lot for the info. I have really been trying to watch my DPS output in a group to keep from pulling aggro. I remember reading that root didn't break on damage, but for some reason I was thinking this was nuke damage - which usually broke root pre-patch. I assumed that melee damage still broke it. If I can actually open up on a mob without getting aggro... wow. I had been typically waiting to throw prismatic on the tank/scout and holding back on nuking (not that the later accounts for much). And I thought I had really started to master the CU changes. :smileyvery-happy: Thanks again for the tip. Zebsen
If you stand back a ways and open up on DPS, then wait to root until you pull aggro, you can extend the life of the Pets a bit.
Keep in mind that in a group it not only benefits you, but every other ranged DPS toon as well (mages and rangers in particular). The entire group's DPS potential goes up when you can successfully keep the mob from getting to them. With you in the group, they can pretty much unload at will. Message Edited by MillsFairchild on 10-13-2005 05:50 PM
Been having alot of fun ranged exp groups lately =). One healer, one illu, and fill the rest with rangers/warlocks/wizards....add troubs for extra illusionist scout spice.
Yes, I played with this strategy last night and really got to unload on some mobs. Root is very effective at increasing DPS. Are just illusionist roots like this or is this for multiple classes? Thanks for the tip. I still can't believe I missed experimenting with this. Zebsen Level 45 Illusionist Lavastorm
As far as I know (and I very well could be wrong here), only Enchanters are supposed to get this kind of root. Wizard, Warlock, Conjuorer, and Necromancer root spells all include this description: "Roots the [class'] target in place, preventing them from movement. Every hostile spell or damage received by the target has a chance at breaking the effect." Root notes form the combat changes: Root Spells There are two types of root spells: damage break and periodic. Damage break roots have a chance to break every time the rooted entity takes damage or is the target of a hostile action (such as a debuff). Periodic roots have a chance to break at certain points in the spell's duration, but will not break due to damage or hostile acts. Root duration is affected by the level of the spell and the type of root, but is not impacted by spell rank (Apprentice I, Adept III, etc.). Damage break root duration ranges from 20 to 60 seconds if the root is the only (or primary) effect of the spell. Otherwise, duration is 10 to 30 seconds. Periodic root duration ranges from 10 to 30 seconds if the root is the only effect of the spell. Otherwise, duration is 5 to 15 seconds. The reuse time of a root spell is determined by the type of root spell and the targets it affects. Damage break root reuse is generally 6 seconds for single-target roots and 10 seconds for TAE/PBAE-target roots. Periodic root reuse is generally 10 seconds for single-target roots and 15 seconds for TAE/PBAE-target roots. These numbers represent reuse for spells with root as the primary effect of the spell. Combination spells with root effects will vary based on the other aspects of the spell. Cast time of a root spell is determined by the type of root spell and the targets it affects. PBAE-target root spells are 1 second; single-target or TAE-target root spells are 2 seconds. These numbers represent cast times for spells with root as the primary effect. Message Edited by MillsFairchild on 10-14-2005 11:01 AM
This is why I think it is working as intended. We should have been given a great root from day one of release. We are CC. Root is CC. I have noticed a significant increase in root breakage recently. Usually on high yellow or orange which is to be expected. On Blue it is still pretty consistent.
The root cannot be relied upon against most yellow and higher mobs, and especially against named ^^^ mobs, even blue con. Root is helpful in soloing, but with our solo DPS this ability does not overpower us. We can do a lot of things because we have a lot of tools, root is but one of them, but the time it takes to safely defeat an encounter solo balances things out. Here is an example. There was one of those jealous types posting about him witnessing an illusionist solo Curator in Silent City "with ease". Is that overpowered? Well first of all that person only saw the end of the fight, which took 10-15 minutes as he claims. The tricky part would be the pull, our group mezz cannot mezz the whole encounter since there are too many mobs in it. Trying to single mezz heroics as they are beating on you after group mezz is tricky and then you have to kill them one by one. When you are down to just the Curator the only strategy that gives you safety is to stun and "nuke". That is what was witnessed most likely. Our stun is a dot now, you can only mezz when it is completely worn out which requires great timing and few resists. Our "nuke" is .... So I do believe it is possible for illusionist to solo a very tough encounter, and make it look easy to someone without a clue, but in fact it is a tough, risky, and time consuming process. And I believe that what illusionist is all about, having tools to develop an intricate strategy that requires almost flawless execution. And it is not an effective way to xp or plat farm. There are many classes that can solo very tough encounters, we are hardly alone in this situation. And in most cases it is based on some sort of root, stun or snare. If you take that away we are all back to killing solo mobs, which is frankly boring, or we are forced to group. I play in group most of the time anyway, but I don't want to be forced to do anything.
I am sure I am not alone on this. But, depending on the surroundings (such as if there is alot of agro walking around) I have been very successful soloing ^^^ blue named. The root holds very well especially with wither hope. If its a caster forget about it (unless you want a VERY VERY long drawn out fight). If its straight melee, its all over. It took me alot of practice but once I figured it out, I took out the named 100% of the time.
