I've been asked to resurrect my Zerker for some OT/MT duties on some nights for raid. He all his abilities at least expert and his epic 2.0 are abilities are grand mastered. He's running with about 87 fervor, 64k pot, 4.5k CB and 1m ability mod in def stance. Out top end raid dpsr's ranges from 2B - 5B depending on the fight. Am I going to struggle to hold aggo against that type of DPS. I tagged along on one of our last raids and I could only get 200-400 million dps on most of the fight. I'd say look him up on EQ2U but that is not working.
You should be fine. Honestly with that chunk of fervor you have, you should do quite well with aggro if not better than most. But hopefully you also have 100 spell double cast. Every class needs 100 minimum for their ascensions.
Too many factors to give you a definitive answer but if the DPS'ers are outputting 2 to 5 billion and you are outputting 200 to 400 million, specifically on a zerker even with good support I would hazard a guess that you will be losing aggro with a somewhat regular frequency. Of course depending on the fight and what your role is that may not be the end of the world, although some fights it could be more of a problem.
Same assumption here. My crappy alt zerker with like 62k potency has an absolute nightmare of a time doing about that same dps holding aggro off people doing about the same dps you listed for your raid members. He's lower on fervor because no orange adorns but I would expect some struggles. Coordinated with your troubs to Abhorrent Verse you when you need it. That will help more than anything you can personally do by a factor of ten.
This is indeed true but easier said that done. When DPS classes are going all out and competing with each other to be top of the parse, tank agro is least of their worries! Their blood is no longer flowing up to their head but rather flowing down to thier <censored>!
I would have said "Feet" as they would be itching to move faster to get to the top of the parse. But that is just me.
Too much worry about the parse and not enough worry about everybody being able to do their jobs. Top DPSers who just shove out more DPS and think it is the tanks job to handle whatever they dish out are just plain WRONG. Aggro managment is everybodies job. Everybodies, even (or especially!) DPS classes. If your tank can't handle the DPS then everybody needs to assess their contribution to the problem and adjust accordingly. The parse doesn't mean a damn thing if everybody is DEAD but the target MOB.
I'm picking up what you're putting down. Personally, I've always disagreed with this stance though. I have always felt it is my job as a tank to facilitate the DPS to go crazy all the time and do their thing. I would hate to be the reason they can't utilize their classes to the fullest because I just want to turtle up, not temp up prepull, and beg for AVs. Yeah sure a dehate from them after a massive nuke doesn't hurt, but really I like to try and keep up with the T1s so thay they never have to pump the breaks. Go offensive from time to time on easier mobs and let the healers heal a little. Sometimes they like it I swear
I agree 100% and that is how i have always believed it should be. If i as a tank cannot allow a dps to do there job to the fullest because i can not hold aggro than i am failing and need to change things up. Never have i told any dps to hold back unless a script requires it. Everyone has a job and if one has to back off because the tank can't do there job, it is 100% the tanks fault. Don't put yourself in a position you can't handle, do what you need to do to better yourself so everyone can play to there fullest potential. Don't be the one to hold someone else back.
I see where you are coming from but I don’t agree. For the sake of argument, lets assume the best tank is in group with the best dps. We are playing a trinity based MMO and agro is the fundamental links between the tank and dps classes. If the best tank could not loose agro then there is no need for communication or coordination between the tank and dps. Both can be in group and can press buttons without taking to each other ever. This is bad for group and role based MMOs. There needs to reasons for this agro link to break and it should break too to create sense of danger and excitement for tank and dps. In vanilla EQ2, a wizard can very easily take agro away from the best tank in the game and the tank can do nothing about it. This was by design and I think this is how it should be. Tanks back then did not do the huge dps they do now and they need to ramp up their hate and dps have to play according to that. A badly timed Ice Commet could wipe the raid since the mob turned away from the tank! So now dps classes have to mind the mobs as well as tank hate. What I am saying is, if the best tank can always hold agro, then you have taken away a one degree of complexity from the game. Given how vital agro is in trinity based games, agro should still be matter for ALL classes to manage and not just tanks alone. So I think there are valid situation where "holding back" is playing at "full potential". Obviously everything I said assume some sort of tank “balance”! Also I am not saying a low geared tank should group with a high geared dps and expect them to cater to them. What I am saying is, the group as a *whole* should manage agro even at the top end.
Sounson and Travail are correct. As long as the tank is appropriately geared vs the dps, in most cases it is easy to hold aggro even if the DPS is going nuts. Part of hate generation for tanks is their own dps and all tanks should be trying to maximise their own dps output, the tank classes that output lower dps numbers have additional tools to generate hate to compensate. If youre a tank and you simply spec for pure defense, only use taunts and dont consider maximising your dps more than likely you are going to encounter issues. Holding aggro in this game is easy even vs the biggest dps'ers, when you know how. Although I would add one caveat, if the dps are casting their biggest ascension nukes to land before you've even pulled the mob then that can cause issues. It goes without saying, if the dps have hit the mob multiple times before the tank has even engaged the encounter, the dps are going to have aggro at least at the beginning. This is the most common issue I come across.
I agree the game has changed and if the dps and tank is equally geared, then the the tank will never loose agro in the current game. I am not questioning that. I was merely reminiscing about how it should be hence why I said "vanilla eq2" and not eq2 This is one of those changes which dumped down the game...
In all fairness, even dating back to 6-7 years ago, the tank has always had to hold his weight in terms of DPS. However, with the influx of stat increases and crazy itemization, it made tanks relative on the parse because they too have stats thru the roof. Its apples to oranges. cant do one without the other. and only way to revert would be to unravel the itemization and stats which isnt a good idea in and of itself.
Yes its too late to revert for EQ2 and even I for once don't want to loose the DPS as SK given the state of current EQ2. I don't know may be if they did EQ3 ...
The only expac I really bickered about aggro control was Kunark Ascending. You didn't even Need a tank to succeed in heroics. In fact the first time I tried using high defensive / low potency gear, I was practically being carried like a wasted slot. My dps was low, no aggro control. It was so bad that that the Conjy and mages in group were tanking it. I hated that bonehead idea because without high potency pieces, you could never keep up. Which lead to the problem with asking people to hold back dps kinda ruins their fun. I can see it both ways but look at it this way. Its hard to take Somone that regularly runs in groups where he can go all out without problems and then shifts into a group where hes asked to hold back. KA was especially like this for anyone without an epic. At the time I felt the easiest fix was to give every tank an Amends ability like a paladin. Granted, NOW at the least, daybreak did one good thing (which should have been done in KA) and that was to give All items similar potency amounts, with slight improvements per the item quality. Nowadays, aggro control isn't as big a deal since taunt amounts seem to properly scale with potency. The only problem that I see which could help a bit is throw in some newer replacement Fervor items. A lot of peeps won't be able to net much above 50 fervor without heart bound and last expacs 15 fervor Orange adorn. This would also help, because a lot of dps classes from last expac managed to get their fervor and class runes where they can easily push 70+ fervor. Most probably won't reach over 100 this expac (which is lame) while many others from last expac already have.
