Poison doesn't do very much for assassins. Neither do our weapon procs... Or our Offensive Stance proc. I've found that this contributes very little towards my damage in fights, as I am always trying to do other things, especially in group fights. Poison doesn't help our class the way it helps other scout classes, and neither do our weapon procs.. Or, at least.. We don't see the effects or results of these things as frequently. Our attacks are focused, they are concentrated 1 hit moves, and while, yes, they are pretty high damage in one spell compared to other classes, in the time it takes to use them.. Other scouts do more damage. Assassins get nothing to balance that out.. And, very little of my damage comes from auto-attack unless I am soloing.. And when I am soloing, auto-attack is one of the few things that I do have. Our auto-attack isn't very good compared to some scout classes... Even with our DPS% buffs.. I'd rather have Haste% buffs, because they give better chances to proc poison and weaponprocs, I think. I was parsing a fight with my swashbuckler friend, and I saw that a lot of his damage in a lot of the fights was coming from his poison procs, and I saw that he was proccing poison far more than I was.. Not to mention outdamaging me by quite a bit.. Gah. I don't even know why I bother trying to get our class fixed. It will probably never happen. We're doomed, guys.. Doomed to suck.. Forever. That makes me sad. I'm sad. :smileysad:
I encourage you to take a look at auto-attack damage again. Get a group that can provide some +dps buffs, turn on group haste or your own short duration Bloodlines haste, then turn on Brutal Focus. Between auto attack damage, poison procs, weapon procs, and Swipe procs you'll be dealing significant damage. I'm regularly hitting for 300 or more per attack, spiking quite a bit higher than that with some short lived dps buff stacking. I don't consider this a fix to our class, only a fix to our DPS. I am not going to have fun being a class that AFKs during raids to keep my DPS high. I don't mind spamming combat arts and juggling DPS against aggro, but the damage numbers should reflect that effort and show our class to be a Tier 1 DPS class as intended.
My Inq had never any problem doing any of the tear grifters quests, paying litte or less attention and getting bored cause it took so long. My assassin, on the other hand, had to run several of them, especially the froglok one, or any with mobs healing themselves. No chance of doing those.
Okay. I swear.. People are not reading what I am saying. I am so glad that we have poisons, weapon procs, and our offensive stance procs.. But, what I was saying is these things do not benefit US as much as they do OTHER scouts. I am glad that we have at least something to buffer our auto-attack.. But, our auto-attack isn't the best, either. I don't want to be an auto-attack class. I would rather have all or most of my damage come from my backstabs, and have auto-attack going in between to fill the gaps.. Since our damage isn't up to par with other DPS classes, and it certainly doesn't surpass anyone.. I was trying to figure out why. Our poison, weapon procs, and offensive stance procs go off far less than other scouts do, because we land fewer hits in a fight. Fewer hits = fewer chances to proc, if I am not mistaken. We have no haste, and most of our damage comes from our backstabs. We hit less times in fights than swashbucklers.. So, swashbucklers will be proccing more than us.. A lot more. Again, I don't want swashbucklers to be nerfed, I just use them as an example because I am constantly grouping with one, constantly being outdamaged and outclassed by one, and I have a fair idea of what they do because I parse fights with EQ2companion.. That shows what % of damage in a fight comes from what, how many hits are landed, etc.. It's actually very informative and useful... But, that's beside the point. I was actually trying to make a point, but, apparently that's not even worth doing since no one is reading what I am saying anyways. I am making points. Valid points. I want my class to be good. I am trying to shine light on things that are keeping us in a lower place than we should be on the DPS pyramid. I wouldn't post something here if I thought it were insignificant or untrue. Think about what you folks are saying. Read what I am saying. I do my best to keep a level-head. I read into everything before I make a statement. I am trying to be the voice of reason.
Go see your local alchemist and get Adeste's Disruption. It's 451dd 74 dot damage and with the dual wield proc changes you should proc again before it ticks much. Either way you look at it thats some solid damage just from poisons.
In a raid context their self-haste is nullified by the group haste buffs that are overriding it. Now classes with various multiple-attack combat arts will always have a leg up on us with respect to proc damage, we have to get over that -- our only option to make up for this is in multi-mob encounters with our, now faster casting, AE arts. I'm not sure we have any other option, and doubt that we would be seeing any multiple-attack single-target combat arts to level the playing field. The one thing that would even things between our class and those that have multiple fast attacking skills (Swashies have a couple of multi-hit combat arts, Rangers and Swash have fast attacking ranged attacks, unsure who else has such a thing) is for our DoT damage to be both increased and made to tick faster (1.5s or 2s per tick, increase damage per tick). These powers saw a large nerf with the Combat Update which has yet to be rectified, this is one place where Assassins can look forward to improvement in a future update.
due to our proc buff working now. and the increased proc rates of everything all around. our dps on auto attack increased significantly. hell i was double. tripple even quad procing. procing poison every other swing , even pulling well into the 500 -700 range on auto attack in a poets group. (lock 1k-1300), and pulling i think my highest at a 1500+ dps during that night without assassinate. swipe now has a tendancy to act like a bow if it procs it triggers more poison and weapon procs ontop of the initial hits. i strongly suggest you do more testing,parsing etc on it. cause as far as its shown to me, our auto attack damage is uber due to all the procs. and yes like khy said get your self some adeste's ( about 10-20g a vile depending on your server) 500 damage every 1/3 swings is alot of damage. Message Edited by Jakron on 11-13-2005 05:44 PM
What kind of buffs did you have? What kind of gear do you have? Spell upgrades? Was anyone outdamaging you? Have you ever grouped with another class of the same or greater caliber?
and yes like khy said get your self some adeste's ( about 10-20g a vile depending on your server) 500 damage every 1/3 swings is alot of damage. When was the last time you saw a Priest class spend 10-20g to heal someone? A: NEVER When was the last time you saw a Fighter class spend 10-20g to taunt a mob? A: NEVER When was the last time you saw a Mage class spend 10-20g to nuke a mob? A: NEVER When was the last time you saw a Scout class spend 10-20g to do DPS? A: EVERY DAY Scouts are the only class that have to pay for thier DPS... No other class in the game even comes close to matching the money sink that scouts have, and this is just to perform the core role of the scout... Hmmm.. What do you think Enchanters would say if every 10th tick of thier mana regen cost them 1sp.... Or fighter classes paying 1sp for every 5th CA they use... How about if Pet classes had to pay 5gp every time the summoned a pet, and the pets only last for 30 mins max (not counting if they died and they would have to resummon which would cost an additional 5gp) or if Priest classes had to pay 1sp each time thier reactives, wards or heal over times ticked? Or if Wizards and warlocks had to pay 1sp avery 5th time they cast a damage spell How about if scouts had to pay 2.5gp for each poison they apply?? Opps, forgot, they already do Ok, how about 2.5sp each time they fire thier bows?? Opps, forgot they do that also.. Hmm... Looks like scouts are the only ones that have to pay in order to do thier core role... Gwern - 61 Assassin
every other class would give their left nut to use poisons, if you dont belive me. think back to when torrent of the ages was bugged. you do relize people bought that crap out like crazy for almost 4- 5x what its worth now. ive seen it sell for 20-25g a vial and not once. never did a single person ever. EVER complain of it beein expensive. where as you can get adeste's for like 2-5 g if you have an alch friend or grind it yourself or 5-6g for common t6 poisons that do decent damage on their own and tbh idk how much coin any of yall make, but realy eq2's economy is meaningless,. you can go mine for an hour and make 2p+ or hell while grinding to 60 you made tons of cash to im sure. it realy doesnt bother me to pay for poisons or arrows. maybe you should roll a tank the 1 class who dies the most. or pay their daily raid repair bills. or a guard for instance where they take massive shield damage on one of their abilities. and im getting realy sick of goin on test and beta and writing up tons of petitions,feedbacks,bug reports, talking to devs and cs day in and day out to get [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] fixed, then waiting to have it fixed , have it fixed, then have some of you whine your ***** off once somthing finnaly gets fixed. and ontop of that point fingers at me or the people who are only repeating what others have said. i mention that khy said buying adeste's would be a good idea and its my fault? hrmmm funny how that works. idk why there is teh few of you who hate on your dps so much witha passion. after the patch i find my dps to have been uped by a ton. hell almost all the assassins i talk to daily in the assassin channel think our dps is insane now, ask any of them. all i know is even while solo. solo buffed no pots just adept 3 whirling and some even common poisons ,i can auto attack for a ton of damage. why you cant do the same idk. maybe your just unlucky , and maybe auto attacking for 300 while procing like crazy and getting swipes as high as 700 in a caped str group sucks. yes there are things that could make us better. there always will be problems it will NEVER end. get used to it welcome to a mmo. once soe fixes things your just gunna get greedy and wanna get more buffs. ie omg assassinate needs to be a 30 second recast that will fix our dps. omg deathly blade needs to be 5 sec recast. /sigh o and dec69, whats your actual assassins name btw. just curious , you never seem to say it and ive probably never seen either of you in the assassin channel talking to any of us there. Message Edited by Jakron on 11-13-2005 11:18 PM
My assassins name is Raio. I play on the Befallen server. I've never been in that channel. I am not greedy. I know there are classes that do more damage than assassins consistently, because I see it every single day. I am not playing my class wrong. I play my class the best that I can. Maybe my toon isn't uber, but that has little to nothing to do with my class being not-as-good as other classes at the only thing it can do.
everyone should realy join the channel, we talk about this stuff all day and all night. some classes are supposed to out dps us (wizards,warlocks) never said you played your class wrong. uber has nothing to do it., if your comparing your class to your guildies or friends your probably equaly geared so having uber stuff wont change the fact if your decked out the classes in your guild will most likeley be to. and what classes are giving you the most problems ie, out dps'n you consistently . like i said above if its locks or wizards they are supposed to. one thing no one EVER takes into is compared to mages, we can do alot of dps with 0 power costs. they cant. and compared to every other class. every single class assassins have the best option for keeping agro off ourselves. we can stack an agro transfer, a agro gain debuff, and we have 2 massive agro debuffs. i know other classes wish they had agro debuffs. hell thats the only thing the mages i know want. you relize how much more they die in a long raid night then a pred/ or scout class. they can do little dps and get agro. we on the other hand can do the same dps (maybe not in the same time frame) for less power cost. and almost no threat. that my friend is one of our huge advantages we take for granted.
every other class would give their left nut to use poisons, if you dont belive me. think back to when torrent of the ages was bugged. you do relize people bought that crap out like crazy for almost 4- 5x what its worth now. ive seen it sell for 20-25g a vial and not once. never did a single person ever. EVER complain of it beein expensive. where as you can get adeste's for like 2-5 g if you have an alch friend or grind it yourself or 5-6g for common t6 poisons that do decent damage on their own Yeah they would give thier left nut to be able to use it, but that still does not change the fact that scouts (Rangers, Assassin, Swash, Brigand) are the ONLY classes that have to pay for thier DPS... No other class in the game has anywhere near the money sink that we have... or hell while grinding to 60 you made tons of cash to im sure. Hmm, maybe you have missed my sig at the bottom, but I have been 60 for quite some time.... maybe you should roll a tank the 1 class who dies the most. or pay their daily raid repair bills. or a guard for instance where they take massive shield damage on one of their abilities Hmm and who do you think is the first to go down after the tank?? Yeah, I pay just as much in repair bills as the tank, if not more because the tank generally has the best buffs, the best resists and it's the people outside the MT group that get killed more often than the tank... But then again, I'm sure you already know this... and ontop of that point fingers at me or the people who are only repeating what others have said. i mention that khy said buying adeste's would be a good idea and its my fault? For starters, my post was not aimed at you, it was a general statement as to why we, the classes that use poisons, are the only ones in the game forced into a money sink to do the only job we have in the game, which is DPS.... Did you even read what I said about Khalysta to begin with?? It's really easy for someone that stole thier guild bank to tell others to go out and spend money, when she has no money problems what so ever... She is the richest player on my server, thanks to her not passing on the guild bank when she decided to quit playing.... Don't believe me? Ask any ex-Trinity members... Go on the Kithicor server forums and look it up... She basicly screwed her guild by not turning over thier guild bank when she quit playing.. So yeah, I have problems with her comming here and telling people they are either not playing thier characters right, telling them to spend more money, or saying everything is great with our class when she doesn't even play her Assassin any more... I'm sorry, I have absolutly no respect what so ever for Khalysta, especially when she comes in here talking about stuff she has no experience at all with (level 51 atm) all i know is even while solo. solo buffed no pots just adept 3 whirling and some even common poisons ,i can auto attack for a ton of damage. why you cant do the same idk. maybe your just unlucky , and maybe auto attacking for 300 while procing like crazy and getting swipes as high as 700 in a caped str group sucks. yes there are things that could make us better. there always will be problems it will NEVER end. get used to it welcome to a mmo. once soe fixes things your just gunna get greedy and wanna get more buffs. ie omg assassinate needs to be a 30 second recast that will fix our dps. omg deathly blade needs to be 5 sec recast. /sigh I never said I had problems soloing, in fact the exact opposite is true... I easily solo stuff in PoF, LT and SC, in fact I soloed myself through the majority of 59 to get to 60... I play at odd times so groups are not always easy to get, so I spend alot of time soloing.... Yeah, they could make it a bit easier, but it's far from impossible.... Look at the stuff I have talked about being wrong... I'm not asking for Assassinate to be 30 sec recast or anything silly like that... The stuff I have commented on was stuff like Stealth breaking without taking any damage... AOE cast times being huge (which was fixed).... Never have I asked for refresh times to be reduced or damage to be increased, I was more interested in getting stuff that is broken fixed, because you'll never know what you can do if some base skills are broken.... As is, I can generally do between 700-1100 DPS in groups, some times more or less depending on circumstances.... I'm not crying that my class is totally busted.... All I want right now is for stuff that is obviously broken to be fixed... IE Concealment not placing you into stealth, Stealth breaking without taking damage... Maybe changing Cripple to flanking rather than directly behind (hate getting the "you must be behind" message when I am behind the mob)... I don't know, maybe asking to have stuff that is broken is too much to ask for, but I don't feel that it's unreasonable to ask to get things that are broken, fixed..... Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor
we can stack an agro transfer We can't stack agro transfer.... Last time I tried this a few days ago, only 1 Assassin could cast thier agro transfer on the tank, if the other tried, it would drop the first one and replace it with thiers... We did however try chaining transfer... IE the other Assassin used thier agro transfer on me and I used mine on the tank.... Seemed to work ok, but have only done it the 1 time.... Another option to this is calling a pet (either the rat or the mushroom) and casting your hate transfer on the pet.... I tried this once at a raid, but due to other circumstances, I could not tell you how well it worked.... I'll have to try it again sometime.... everyone should realy join the channel, we talk about this stuff all day and all night. Is there somewhere that we can find the name of this chat room in order to join? Or is it one of the premade ones you can select through chat window option (never looked, so don't know if it's there).... Gwern - 60 Assassin - Kithicor Message Edited by Aienaa on 11-14-2005 07:16 AM
Hmmmmm 500-700 on auto? Consider you do 200 dmg auto average(T6 Fable) + 300 dmg on swipe proc + 300 dmg on legendary poison, you pretty much have to proc every second to do 800 DPS. The most I seen is 350 on auto, and thats 2 t6 fable, legendary poison, Group Haste 40% + Group Str 380ish + Warlock dmg prc
Just to add my 2 cp I have a hard time finding groups and therefore I solo almost all the time. It really agravates me when I see us being made into a group only class with veryu little solo ability. I can on occasion solo a blue 1 arrow up and no this is not a herioc mob they are solo mobs even if they have 1 arrow up. I cannot solo a even 1 arrow up unless the gods are helping me that day (never happens). This is my biggest frustration and I cannot sit around all day waiting for assassinate to refresh just so I can kill a quest mob Bull Croc in the croc caves. I also play a 51 Sk that was laughing at how easy it was to kill the same mobs that slaughetr my assassin at 50. Yes 1 Lvl difference but give me a break. If I am a group only char then I have to be able to get groups which isnt happening at this time. I am not sure if anyone else has noticed but on my server the population seems to be shring again now that the newness of the expansion has worn off and I am not sure if this is the reason or if its just assassin suck at DPS and everypne knows it. I have also found that others dont seem to understand my frustration at being so weak. When I tried to explain it to my guild I actually got a statement from a wizzie that if i can solo a yellow no arrows that he had no sympathy for me. He has no idea how hard that can be if the stun fails. I must be able to solo or find groups that is the botom line and at this point neither is happening very often.
