Folks, as Rangers, we are low tier 1 DPS or just basicly tier 2. We have to face it, I assume that's where they want us. But also, as Rangers, when we try to group and raid, which the is the role that they want everyone to be, grouping folks. So what do we bring to a group other than our Ranged DPS????? NOTHING!! We have no group buffs, nothing we do to benifit the group/raid, no utility at all. So lets put our heads together and come up with a balanced, fair, but yet worhty group buff we as rangers could bring to a group/raid they would make us more wanted. I have heard of some top tier raiding guilds not even using Rangers because they bring nothing to the table other than decent DPS. What "untill cancelled" buff can we come up with that would set us apart? I personally like this: at Adept 1: Power of the Glade: Level 67 Effect lasts Untill Cancelled: "A group spell that increases all members in the Rangers group an additional 10% chance to their weapon or posion proc" Adept 3 15% Master 1 20%
One thing i really enjoyed as a ranger in EQ1 was ability to effectively snare mobs. Of course in that game snaring actually meant something when mobs were fleeing at low health in crowded dungeons. We had great Harmony/Lull-spells that reduced agro range that could be used for cc. We had a Bind Sight that was usefull (not the useless wizards have now) becuse we could cast it on mobs to scout around corners in dungeouns. We also had a SoW that was effective for other players. Not saying these are doable in EQ2 without a makeover. Just dreaming of past times.
I'm in a casual raiding guild, around 99 players. Pretty solid bunch. Our Rangers usually top out DPS, one in particular manages to come out tops in the parser 8 times out of 10. I'm leveling up a ranger (currently 51) and any groups I play in I out DPS Wizzies and other tier one dps classes. I have found ranger to be a solid tier one DPS, however it takes a lot of work and a good command of all the available skills, be it melee or range. Spamming big hit CA's is not enough (not saying you are just saying it takes finesse of all skills to maximize dps and that most people don't do it)
Giving the Ranger class a new spell, at least a group buff dont solves the problem of them the dev's have to look extremly at the current state of our CA's, many of them are not compared vs the other T1 classes, not on dmg nor on the reuse timer nor on the effectiveness for example Stream of Arrow lvl 55 current State: broken Why?: b/c not useable solo, in some cases you are doing more dmg with your autoattack range modus then with this CA, roots you, stifles you and so on ... in some cases there is no 1,5 sec delay between a arrow shot ... Solution: increase the dmg amount Sniper Shot lvl 58 current state: k, but the reuse timer is tooooooo long ... 15min waiting for a 4-9k hit ?!? and no i dont spent 8 AA points in that stupid AA tree to decrease the reuse timer of that spell...it would be a waste of points ... ah and yes, that AA ability dont even work at all right Selection lvl 61 Current state: could be better, it needs to be in stealth(this should be changed), damage amount is way to small for a AE, reuse timer of 1min would be k if the spell would be better Focus Aim lvl 64 Current state: USELESS why?: giving the ranger class 10 sec of increase DPS, Crit chance and attack speed...wow sounds pretty ... but thats not the case .... i would waste my power for that spell, well if i turn that spell on(it has really a 10 sec duration) and i press the next range CA, well the duration is gone to 4sec ... thats pathetic .. Solution: this spell should be changed into a Self Buff (1 Conc), but it should have a 25% (or something like that)to cast a 1min duration buff with the same attribus or make it permanent, but decrase shlighty the effects of that spell Cover Fire lvl 64 Current state: Well, do i use that Spell ? the range is k, but it should become a dmg component on it and not only decrease the Armor Solution: Add a dmg component on it!! Hawk Dive lvl 65 Current state: well, how do i explained it? ... its suxx like hell, i dont even use that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] of a spell .... and thats our pretty nice new lvl 65 spell ? heja, look at the warlock/wizzies spell ... THOSE Spells are huge and nice for a t1 class ... not a stupid hawk which breaks your stealth or is doing nothing like BS Solution: This Spell should be changed into something similar like Fusion or Rift, that would be nice Confounding Arrow lvl 66 Current state: Useless Why?: b/c it dont even work ... it should increase the hate of that person, who hits the target ... hell i dont even use that spell in raids, not b/c it doesnt work, b/c it is a waste of power to use it ... and if that spell would work, i dont even would use it, do you know how many ppl are hitting in 1 sec that mob ? wow ... give the brig much more hate Solution: Changed in into a Range 800-1600 Attack (A3) with a DoT (300-450) component on it, call it Poison Arrow or somethink like that Killing Instinct lvl 67 Current state: Useless, with a Reuse timer of 5 min Why?: b/c it suxx to wait for a extra boost (does this spell give even a extra boost of DPS ? hell i dont even noticed if a have it on or not) Solution: Make it a permanent buff, with slighty decrease effects Tripple Arrow lvl 70 Current State: the dmg amount is k, but its stupid Why?: B/c every arrow fired up with this spell has a CHANCE to hit .... so if the first arrow didnt hit, the two others arrows will mis automatically ...THIS IS STUPID Solution: Make that every Arrow can hit the target, not if one missed all others misses too The same problem as Tripple Arrow is with Precise shot .. the dmg amount is k, but the second arrow only hit if the first would hit, thats *ARGHHHHHHHHHH* Solution: See above Well, thats my opinion how to bring up the ranger class into t1 DPS ... with this changes, we dont need at this time a new group buff spell If the devs fix then the problem with the stealth, everything is nearly k EDIT: ah not to forget, our t7 hate reducer should drop someday .... not to mentioned that this spell you cant even buy ... Nachricht bearbeitet von Dojocan am 06-30-2006 07:39 AM
You are trying to make the argument that we have been nerfed to basically tier 2 dps and thus should be given utility to compensate and make ourselves useful. If you hadn't included the whole "tier 2" point then you might just have a leg to stand on when it comes to 'its not a dps discussion'. However you used it as a justification for increase in utility, therefore it is wholly relevant to the argument. Just sayin bro' :smileywink:
There is no arguement we have sober up!!! I have a couple ideas for group buffs that make sense. Id like a group ranged bonus buff like we buff up the ranged of everyone in the group by +60 and maybe give us a ae avoidance buff or proc chance to proc an avoidance buff for the rangers group.
you may want to read the description on that spell again. the aggro increase isn't on the next person who hits the mob, it's on the next person which the mob hits. and that is, hopefully, the tank. so it is working in a way that makes sense.
Quit trying to be like me, Axkiva. If you want AE avoid, roll a bard or Brigand. Rangers don't need utility, especially not a group buff. If anything, a single targe buff similar to Assassin's Apply Poison would be cool. They just need better raid dps.
Yeah Confounding Arrow is kinda confusing in the wording of the Effects, but it does infact increase the hate by 30% of the next person the mob hits. It's definately useful in raids that way, unless the mob decides now would be a good time to break off and beat up the Wizzie.
I don't want any stinkin' utility. I rolled a ranger 2 years ago because it was supposed to be a premier dps class. If I'd wanted to have utility, I would have rolled a rogue or a bard. I just want the ranger class to be fixed to provide dps equivalent to that of an assassin in a raid environment. I want SoE to get off their collective rears and actually figure out a way to measure ranger and assassin dps in a raid environment using players who actually know what they are doing, instead of whatever broken method they are now using (assuming they are bothering to measure it in the first place).
Interesting thought, but the ranger concept in this game doesn't really fit the idea of buffing groups. We're offensive, we're supposed to be DPS; if I have to settle for utility instead of DPS, I think it'd make more sense to give us some debuffs, not helping friendly group stuff. Let the bards keep their niche. I want DPS first and foremost. Barring that, a bit of targeted debuffing would be cool. But I'd rather just have DPS comparable to sorcs and assassins, without needing to have Fabled gear from head to toe, Masters across the board, and needing to spend a mint on arrows and poisons.
Please, no utility. I don't want to be both a gimped assassin AND a gimped rogue. Any utility that would make us useful on raids would require lowering our DPS.
why do all the rangers thing they deserve decapitate? i have yet to figure this out. that is the assassin class defining spell. they gave you a nice ancient teaching with sniper shot. be happy they have you a pretty high dmg art. also decapitate doesnt account for much dps on a raid. i hate to say it, but its really just a fun spell that lets us assassin have a pissing contest. you have your 70 spell storm of arrows. hey i would love an upgrade to my ancient teachings too, im sure most classes would but the thing is its not really needed yet. maybe once we hit 80, we can fins upgrades to those.
Hey all. I have been [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about this topic since day one. I am a lvl 70 ranger . I have played the Ranger since DAY 1. I have been around through all the over procing under and over dps of the class. I am in what i would consider a heavey raid guild. We raid everynight. to me thats heavy. I wont begin to address past issues as they have been "fixed" what i will address is what i think the OP was wanting. I find that if i get lucky enough to be put in our DPS group ( usally this means some pet class or finger wiggler didnt show up for the raid) then i can be in the top 3 dps of the raid every parse. If i have sniper shot up and and we are lucky enough to have a brigand with us i can be on top if i wait for dispatch everytime. That beign said. though. my snares dont work on epics nor my stuns so all i do is hurl arrows. And the fact that i have no buffs gives the DPS group no help. now i know the trolling flamer leet rangers are going to say "i out dps everyone in my raid every parse". good for you, im not talking about guys who raid so much they have all the fabled gear and have just enough of each class in thier guild to fill the raid idealy so everyone gets the perfect buffs. becuase like i said, under ideal conditions, i can DPS like a king and hold my own. The problem is... that rarely happens. We have enough pet and finger wigglers that they get all the good buffs. so on these raids (9 out of 10) i make the list, just usally bottom to mid on it. I have read posts that say there is no such thing as "tier" dps anymore and thats all good. but i know this. if put in the same group with finger wigglers and pet classes with the same buffs they out dps me everytime as well do the utilities . Im not asking for nerfs of other classes. nor am i aksing to overpower ours. but it is very disappointing to me when a utilty class ( who i will leave namelss as to prove im not trying to classs bash) can buff the hell out of his group and consistanly out dps me. I have asked for help in forums of other high lvl rangers. I have also asked the leet rangers in high lvl guilds on my server what am i doign wrong. and they all say the same thing "nothing" they have the same results. So i know im not crazy. I will never quit the class as i love them. i consider myself a loyal ranger. even if im just on a raid tossing pebbles at -1 damage a sec i will stay a ranger till the end. I would just like a little love from the devs. my biggest complaints along the lines of the OP are. 1. It costs rangers as far as i can tell twice as much to raid/play as other class (bar maybe a sin) why? well you start to add the cost of poisins arrows repairs and food and its alot. yes other class have to buy food and repair. but they dont have to buy poisins and arrows. i consistanly burn through a quiver easily on one raid instance. so lets do the math 6.5 gold a stack x 16 = 104 gold so a plat an instance. now i can summon every ten minutes half a stack or so so that makes up for the times the instance goes a little longer i.e. we wipe and have to start on a mob all over. but on most raidds its a plat pre instance. no posins are not killers but still it adds up. if you want to be up there in tier 1 dps with the best you gotta have the best poisins and 3 of them. those usally depending on the market cost me about 10 - 50 gold for all three. on my server anyway im sure that varies on other servers. that money will get me through about 3-4 raids depending how how many times i proc . then repairs cost me about 50 gold or so depending on how many times we wipe. so I challenge you to show me a Tier 1 DPS class that to stay on top of the parse spends that kind of money (im sure a sin comes close. my sin is only lvl 38 so i do not know for myself as of yet). 2. also. I agree that we are a little weak in buffs. I like the self buffs we have. but like stated above. we have no group buffs. eveyone knows this. and its been my complaint from day one. you think it is trouble to find a group now. you shoud have been a ranger back when DPS really sucked. I never got groups. When we became overpowerd everyone rolled rangers. they poped up everywhere. now that we are meduim damage or what ever you want to cull it because there are no "tiers" anymore there really is no point of people letting us in gourp other than what i like to call "ghetto dps" 3. as i have stated many times before, i do not know how to fix this. if they give us buffs, utilities will [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. if they give us dps everyone says nerf nerf nerf. I think at some point i just accepted i was "ghetto dps" and i live with it. The problems with the class are not hard to spot. They just seem hard to fix "fairly" aparently. i keep hearing about the "balance" thing. well balance me then. make it cost me as much to raid and play as it does everyother class. dont make it cost me more for mid lvl damage. and please give other classes a reason to want us in thier group. I hate being the last kid picked at the dodgeball game. oh just lump the "ghetto dps" down there with the left over healer and extra tank classes. thats all i have to say about that.
I disagree with so many things in this thread its not even worth working myself into a tizzy over. Add in the troll assassin and misunderstandings of spells and abilities.. well lets just do a --- /tizzy off.
