Let me start by saying i play a 49 warden. My partner has a 50 guardian and a 45 paladin. While grouping with the guardian I had alot of trouble healing the guardian and the guardian had alot of trouble keeping agro off of me. we took on a spectre and had to break encounter, evac or end up dead. So we tried it with the paladin.... While grouping with the paladin not only was i able to keep the paladin healed but the paladin never once lost agro & they have a special group buff now that allows everyone in the group to proc special direct damage on undead mobs. and on top of that the paladin is 5 lvls lower than the guardian that couldn't tank with better gear and legendary weapons. Something is wrong with this picture. Suggestions for change; 1) Increase the guardians AC & mit so that it is better than non-plate classes. 2) Increase the guardians ability to taunt. I feel the guardians should have / be the best when it comes to AC, mit, HP, and taunting. The reason for this is simple really and that is because the guardian doesn't do anything else and is highly specialized through training and such to do just that. Unlike other fighters who have utilities aside from straight tanking. It takes time away from training to fight when you learn to feign death or how to heal a wound or how to drain life or go berzerk or whatever... this is why the guardian should be the best at straight tanking ability. As it stands right now it's headed the way EQ did when they beefed up the pally / SK tank ability there... Pally could hold agro with a fishing pole equiped where a warrior had to work alot harder and still lose agro from time to time. I would hope SOE learned their lesson well from that fiasco but apparently not.
Doesn't it then make sense to give utility to Guardians as well so they are in line with other tanks, as opposed to breaking the Fighter tree?
Please tell us you are one of the developers and are considering changing the game mechanics so guaridans can be a utility class.
The Fighter tree? Thats a good one LOL Look every fun thing that we had... either got dropped or gimped down to nothing. Every fun thing that they planned for us in the expansion got gimped down. Utility... define utility. You mean great HP buffs.. had them lost them.
Not entirely sure why your results seemed so different from most people, but the specters are lvl 47-48 casters and undead. Pallies specialize vs undead and casters. Having higher wisdom (and divine resist on def stance) and resists as well as specialised spells vs undead tends to benefit a pally more, but still some thing is up with that huge discrepancy compared to what many other people are seeing. try tanking the sand giants and see if the issue tanking is as noticable.
Posted by Gungo " try tanking the sand giants and see if the issue tanking is as noticable. " We've been all through stinking sands and pillars of flame even. with both the pally and guardian. Pally 5 lvls lower tanks better hands down on anything we ran into. Message Edited by Sebero on 09-22-2005 09:12 AM
I group regularly with a paladin and we trade off tanking. He does quite well. Though I have to say he's a better OT, cause he can heal in a pinch and does more DPS than a guardian (not much more, but some).
well then i guess the guards need more utility to help them tank better in solo and small groups then. How many other gaurds have seen pallies out dps them? because i was under the impression pallies were the worst off in dps.
The Paladin only has slightly better DPS. My group, including the paladin, saw this and we switched back to me being MT. No we do not need utility. A guardian is not about utility. A guardian is about mitigating damage. If a guardian was to mitigate better it would solve a lot of our issue and keep us different than the utility tanks. If I had wanted utility I would have been a Paladin or SK or even a Brawler. How many times are you going to derail threads Gungo?
what you fail to see is that increasing your tanking while you already a superior pure tank will make other fighters obsolete, but then again you don't really care. The logical solution would be to increase utilty so that you will be able to perfrom as well as other fighters in groups/solo. In effect the same outcome w/o making other fighters inadequate at tanking compared to gaurds. and who said i derailed the thread the inital poster laid out an example the secondary poster recommended utility. you then proceeded to cry afowl and ask for mitigation. I fail to see who derailed a thread if anything it was a discussion regarding pal vs guard and dou'ing w regards to the pally perfroming better because of his utility. so it would seem since you joined the thread after the inital discussion that you are derailing the thread. Message Edited by Gungo on 09-22-2005 10:51 AM
Sometimes I think Gungo is really a guardian because he has more posts here than he does in his bruiser forums, you all think he really wishes he was a guard?
Wait a minute. There is something amiss here. If Utility spells are suppose to be soooo hot then why would the fighers who already have them become obsilite? A Paladin with his heals and Res and everything else will never be on the bench. Same for a Shadow Knight. Tanking means standing up to a mob, holiding their attention and SURVIVING. If you cant survive the initial pull and or their new and improved AI spells. Then your not a tank. Your a fill in. If a monk can stand up there and avoid being hit and manage to hold agro. fine... Good tanking. But if you get slammed and die then maybe your not the right tank for that mob. Guardians are right in the middle we not Monk were not Crusader hell were not even Beserk even theough they are in our class. Its easy to see why we became Most utilized Tank With our baseline stats (PRE REVAMP) it was easy to buff and gear within a few points of each class. Add to that our line of taunts did have some nice effects and we could give everyone a good amount hit points POST revamp. Almost all of our taunt effects are gone and can be resisted. We are no longer in the middle of each class were at the bottom. If you just give us more mit its not going to bump the rest of the fighters to the bench. SOE added resists to each fighter class defencive stance. That means when it comes time to hit that epic with some special attack you can be sure its going to be by fighter type tanking it. Just because we are the most widely used tank doesnt mean that were the best for every situation. Message Edited by Warbird1 on 09-22-2005 11:07 AM
What is the issue then really if guardians are the best pure tanks atm which they are since they tank all raid mobs better then other tanks. Why are gaurdians asking for more mitigation. becuase in groups and solo they lack desireablity. why is that ask yourself? its because all that utility you glaot we have means nothing in raids. You already are a better tank what you need is that utility which is alot less effective when raiding to help you be desired in groups. If you dont want it that is fine but don't come here asking to become a better tank becuase you want to be the most desired in group and solo. Guards claim they want to be the best for tanking raids and they are I don't see the issue there. since you alreayd the preferreed tank. what you are asking for is to be unbalanced. I said i have np w guards adding 300 mitigation to shields, but don't dismiss the fact you need utility for all the other guards who want utility. You are being narrowminded and selfish.
You do have the most mitigation you do have the most defense buffs you do have more taunts i did play a 50 guard for raids have you ever played a bruiser. and you are preferred because you take the least amount of damge in raids hence you are a superior tank. Message Edited by Gungo on 09-22-2005 11:33 AM
show me then raahl a screenshot of a comparable guard and bralwer with the guard w less mititgation, less defense or a gaurdian being asked to sit out of maintanking a raid becuase the brawler is better. Thats right i am calling you out raahl shwo me proof. brawler have 1 group and 1 solo taunt and rescue, guardians have more once again raahl where is the proof less whining more facts please. Message Edited by Gungo on 09-22-2005 11:46 AM
I don't have a screen shot of it but i've seen a monk named Miroh on Befallen server solo the brood mother in EF prenerf (by prenerf i mean the revamp) so it's not like monks needed to be beefed up. They already had the ability to tank and do more DPS than plate tanks. I think the real reason the other tanks are posting here is because they got a huge upgrade they didn't need and are now "broken" and want to keep it that way by derailing the guardians legitimate beefs.
o believe me i read what you post raahl and don't agree with it. I tend to agree with many other gaurds that want to be wanted more in groups and solo better w/o overpowering themsleves beyond the other fighters. Currently tanking is comparable w guards having a slight edge. The fact that other fighters utility makes them more desire is what has guardians panties all bunched up. So obvious solution give guards more utility. you know what take away all the gaurds dps buffs, hp buffs, defensive buffs, mitigation buffs, and protection buffs give gaurdians a shield w 1k ac. and lets see how fun your pure tank w absolutly no utility becomes.
