GU61 - Perfect Opportunity to Show Troubadors Some Love

That's the main problem though. We don't exist. There aren't many that play a troub because of how badly their mechanics are currently. I'm sure that will get SOE's attention more than anything.
I do agree though that bumping isn't the way I'd like to keep this topic fresh.

Only solution I can think of to keep this thread up is to banter ideas back and forth. Even if there's only two of doing it. It will be an active thread. Sure they know the issues but tossing some ideas around can't hurt.
Ideas I have:
1 Buff our myth buff to be in line with dirges Do Not nerf the dirge myth buff to be in line with ours
2 Possibly make all of our abiltities range capable. By this I mean allow all of our combat arts to be ranged abilities. This way we can stay with the casters we buff and use all of our abilities.
Those are the only two I can think of currently. Any ideas pertaining to one can still be discussed and I'm willing to listen to opinions on 2. Also any other ideas would be great. As I said going ahead and bantering ideas can't hurt.

Brienae@Lucan DLere wrote:

There is absolutely no need for you to stay back with the casters on a regular basis. If you have a good healer, they will make sure you are in range of their heals. They should split the difference between you and the casters. Further, casters get within melee range now to use their big spells now. Your range buff will take care of the casters when you are in and they are out. You lose all kinds of dps by ranging. Adding range to some of our spells will make it better, but you still should be in. The uncapped MA demands it!
I think that max spell damage on all magic damage to include all procs both from you and the rest of your raid/group will be a step in the right direction. Taking the cap off of haste is going to be a good thing it will help us rack up on flury, so we already have help there. Adding agility and stamina and removing the worthless mitigation on Raxxyl's Rousing Tune sounds like a good benefit.
They are redoing the troubador tree, so now we won't have to waste 20 points to get harmonization, unless they still set the tree up wrong and assume worthless choices aren't really useless. I also think that the health added to Rejuvenating Concerto should probably be doubled along with the worthless regeneration added to each tick. It isn't nearly enough with the current health stats exploding as they have.

Alot more casting speed is needed for the troub class. And spell MA maybe some boost in spell damage aswell. Dirges gets AA that increas the casting speed of their spells yet troubs dont? all should be faster really if they gona keep being on the damage they are atm. The myth proc can easy be changed to 15-20% spell MA insted of the crit proc. That should really make up for alot imo.

Netty wrote:

You can cap yourself out on casting speed with the right AA spec and a couple adorns. Casting speed isn't the issue. Spell MA really won't be nearly as significant as max spell damage on all magic items. Those ideas really aren't going to improve anything. Thanks for the input though.
After some thought, I'm willing to ask that they make the dirge proc a bard proc. Why not? We are both scouts, and the gear we get supports melee rather than spells.

tfetterman wrote:

Really then can you pls explain to me how to cap yourself in casting speed? And for that why would you waste red or yellow slots on casting speed... White... well i bet you there are better options. Face it man some of the troub spells need to be faster casting really. If you are saying that spell MA and more casting speed arnt gona improve anything i have to ask are we playing the same game? Note that i dident say that this will put us on pair with the dirge class. It will just help alot.

Bump

Troubs are fine. Once 90/300 their just as viable as a dirge. Bards are so AA and gear dependant its pathetic! But troubs... their autoattack is right on par with a dirge! Their nukes on the other hand dont coincide with scout gear. They need more casting speed and other mage stats. That comes at a small cost to autoattack damage.
Their group hate reduction is not on par with dirge hate buff (grandmaster).
Give troubs some mage self buffs and free up a concentration slot. Increase mana regen for group desirability. Increase their group hate redux a bit.
Fixed!!!

Now stop bumping your own thread.

tfetterman wrote:

You bring up a valid point. To clariy what I was suggesting was making our combat arts ranged. Btw ranged auto-attack also uses multi-attack. Like I said it was just an idea.
As for casting speed. I don't believe I am anywhere near cap and there are other adornments I would prefer to use. I do use a few white adorns for casting speed but not many. I agree that more casting speed maybe on our gear would be nice. We have this armor that is dropping in group and raid zones designed specifically for us and it has nothing what so ever to do with casting.
So heres what I see so far of ideas posted here:
Mine: Ranged combat arts or blue aoes
Tfetterman: max spell damage
Netty: Spell multi-attack and more casting speed
I say we continue to discuss these ideas/add more. We may not agree but why don't we agree? I say keep discussing and let's not ignore anyone. You said you don't want to bump the thread... but you keep doing so.
Um I've talked to some of my dirge friends and we've compared abilties. My auto-attack is not on par with theirs. As for the de-hate at master it does -33 hate mod add the focus to that (Can't remember which armor piece it's on right now) and it puts you at -43 hate mod. The cap is -50 for de-hate. With others in the group who can lower hate as well I've been in groups where my modifier is over -100 and my ui doesn't know how to count it. More negative hate mod would do nothing. As for the power regen yes more power would be good.

"Um I've talked to some of my dirge friends and we've compared abilties. My auto-attack is not on par with theirs."
Then your gear was different, DPS mod, haste, group set up, etc. Because we have the exact same ability as dirges. I have a dirge and a troub. The only advantage a dirge has is COB (for the most part) and that is raid wide. Invest in poison in the bard tree. Dead calm and the other dirge proc are crap and never parse anything game changing or worth mentioning.
Dirge w/ 3000agi, 125% dps mod and 100 haste (example) - 30,000-50,000 dps
Troub w/ 3000agi, 125% dps mod and 100 haste (example) 30,000-50,000 dps

Really? With the dirge myth proc you guys actually are saying that auto-attack is right on par with the dirge? Really? No wonder you guys think we need casting speed!

ZUES wrote:

The dirges I've talked to are dirges I raid with so that might be the difference. Our gear is relatively the same. Our group set up is nothing alike. I don't know all of thier stats, but we for the most part have mostly EM raid gear. These are the groups as I remember them:
MT Dirge: Paladin, Assasin, Defiler, Warden, Coercer. 80-100k dps
OT Dirge: Monk, Inquisitor, Coercer, Swashbuckler, (Few more melee but can't remember) Between 80-100K dps
3rd Group Dirge: Gaurdian, Brigand, Illusionist, Necromancer, Wizard, Warden (Less geared can't remember their numbers)
Mage Troubador (Myself) Illusionist, Conjuror, Wizard, Fury, Mystic (Sometimes the Necromancer in group three will be in place of the Mystic) I usually average between 50-70K.

Notes wrote:

Maybe YOUR healers don't, we have furies & defilers doing 100K.
My typical dps in raids is around 60-90K, occasionally up to 120K on EX mode trash but that is rare.

Dirge
Effects:

• When Equipped:
  • Applies the effects of Chime of Blades to all raid members.
• When Equipped:
  • On a successful melee attack this spell has a chance to cast Intrepid Strike on caster. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.2 times per minute.
    • Allows caster to hit all melee based attacks for maximum damage.
  • This spell can not be modified except by direct means
• When Equipped:
  • Riana's Indignant Sustain will improve combat art damage by 10%

Troubador

Effects:

• When Equipped:
  • On any successful attack this spell has a chance to cast Ayonic Hymn on target of attack. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.4 times per minute.
    • Increases Damage Spell Crit Chance of caster by 15.0%
    • Inflicts 428-641 mental damage on target
  • This spell cannot be modified except by direct means
• When Equipped:
  • Applies the effects of Perfection of the Maestro to all raid members.
• When Equipped:
  • Aria of Magic will improve hostile spell damage by 10%

Dirges get boost to CAs and troubs get boost to their spells. Intrepid Strike only effects CAs and does NOT effect autoattack! So a dirge CA hits for 2800-3100. That CA is now going to hit 3100. Wow.... way overpowered.... pfft.

tfetterman wrote:

you guys? Im still waiting for an awnser from you. I play a troub just as much as you do. And where did i say the auto attack is on par with the dirge one? if all spells of a troub was cast alot faster and 15-20% spell MA it will be a nice bump for dps. Yes since you do play a troub aswell aye? You would know some of our spells are stumpid slow to cast. They all should be inline with chanters or a normal CA.
sony will never give the dirge buff to troubs. And i myself dont even want that. Its nice to have classes working in diff ways.

For those that way the class is in line check again... the more MA the dirge gets the bigger the gap is getting.

I'm not saying the dirge myth is over powered. My dirge is only 25 so I can't honestly say I know dirges well, but looking at my enervated buff and what was posted for dirges I'd like to compare:
Troubador- Applies the effects of Perfection of the Maestro to all raid members
Dirge-Applies the effects of Chime of Blades to all raid members.
This sounds equivalent
Troubador-Aria of magic will improve hostile spell damage by 10%
Dirge-Riana's indignant Sustain will improve Combat Art damage by 10%
This sounds sound equivalent
Troubador-On any combat or spell hit this spell may cast Ayonic Hymn on target of attack. Lasts for 12.0 seconds triggers about 2.2 times per minute. Increases crit chance of caster by 15% Inflicts 754-1131 mental damage on Target
Dirge-On a successful Melee attack this spell has a chance to cast Intrepid Strike on caster. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger and average of 2.2 times per minute. Allows caster to hit all melee based attacks for max damage.
I could be wrong here as math has never been my best subject but to me 15% crit chance and 1k added to our abilites does not equal the same as max damage. A dirge partner of mine put it this way "That's maybe adding 100 to your dps" referring to Ayonic Hymn Now I'm not saying I should be parsing with the assasins or anything. I am utility I get that I'm just a little tired of feeling invisible.

I really wish I had saved the link to the page, but there was a comparison of all 6 scouts auto attacks and the dirge won. I don't really care who is at the top, but to say that the dirge myth's Intrepid Strike is not a major part of their dps is just plain wrong.
Just for S's & G's I parsed with the wife's dirge with all her gear that procs taken off spare the weapons (which don't have any procs that affect damage) in order to eliminate anything that would affecting the damage of the attacks. Intrepid Strike was up most of the fight, and when I pulled up the parse, guess what? Every single ability that was melee based used while intrepid strike was up was hitting for the exact same amount of damage. Is there anyone really that dilusional that is going to tell me that about 50 different times using the same ability and they're going to hit for the exact same point of damage when theres a possible spread of about 1-3k between the upper and lower amounts on the ability and auto attack?
Parse it if you don't believe it, and make sure to take off anything that procs just to make sure that you're getting unmodified amounts each time. Make sure to look at the damage type of the attack before saying something like "Darksong Balde is hitting for different amounts". If you do that, I garuntee you that any combat art or auto attack alike that is melee based will hit for the same amount every time while intrepid strike is up.

And we got NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Noets

Dont worry, we got the same thing you got. Honestly i am pretty dissapointed that you guys didnt get a bone. However I am more dissapointed that this is the revamp. I hope this is more like a partial update and the real update will show more of what people were wanting b/c this is nothing but a nerf on current gear/stats to tone down the items they will have dropping next year in raids.

Yea the Bard changes were weak and nothing to help out the Troubadors specifically.
One thing now is there is no reason to ever consider using a shield, not that I was anyway.