Hmm, maybe I should have read all these posts before I rolled a Trouby for my first character! So far, at 24, its pretty fun. But it seems once you get past the Honeymoon phase, it goes to crap. I don't really know what most of you are talking about, as there is really no one to group with at my level, and haven't gotten most of my abilities yet, but hopefully SoE will address them by the time I get there Or should I just cut my losses and reroll?
Carthorn wrote Nah, even with the things that needs fixing the class can be played.. I'm sure no matter what class forum you read in, you will find bug lists.. Get used to it and welcome to the trubbie world
The utility dynamics really need some tuning for bards. Especially in light of the new tanking dynamics. We are a support class so if not balanced along with tanking it's quite easy to break one or the other later. You are doing it to a degree now for aggro management, but you should consider other aspects of support too. They factor into aggro indirectly and could produce some unexpected results if tweaked later. From EQ2 start until LU 13, Troubs were the main support in any tanking group. After that, it was Dirge only in any tanking group. You might consider a balancing where both are viable and choices can be made depending on the tank type and the encounter type. A bard's primary support of tanking is avoidance. Up to LU13, AGI was the greatest source of avoidance, therefore Troubs were required. Once AGI was removed as a factor, Dirge's parry and stoneskin became the best support for avoidance. Troubs's support for tanks came in the form of a defense buff and a spell reflect. While not completely broken, they are not working as intended, they seem to be leftover effects much like the Troub power drains. Troubs are essentially saddled with a large amount of pre LU13 mechanics that are no longer relevant. To address tanking support, one only need replace the two nonfunctioning Troub avoidance buffs with modern devices. For example a block buff in place of the defense buff. And a spell stoneskin instead of spell reflect. Dirge would remain parry buff and their stoneskin would affect only melee dmg. Then some tank types could have high parry and low block, whereas some have high block and low parry. You therefore have a choice of either Bard to support the tank depending on the tank's needs. The same goes for the encounter. If facing a melee heavy raid mob like Kultak with melee ae's, Dirge support would be preferrable. If facing a caster heavy raid mob, Troub support would be preferrable. But regardless, whether solo, group, heroic, or raid, both bards offer relevant support for tanking. To address healer support, Dirge's offer minor heal enh with Gravitas. Troubs could offere minor heal enh with a power use reduction for heals. Again this provides a choice. To address caster support. Troubs offer a casting proc. Dirge's could offer a spell hit rate increase temp buff or proc. To address melee support. Dirge's offer a melee proc. Troub's could offer a melee hit rate increase temp buff or proc. In conclusion, with the now changed deaggro mechanic, Troubadors now have at least 5 ineffective (some would argue completely broken) mechanics: deaggro, spell skill increase, defense buff, spell reflect, and power drains. If you were to take any other class and break 5 of their mechanics, the response would not be pretty. Fortunately, Troubs are a patient lot and we have waited over 2 years for some tuning. Could you consider doing it now?
AmadeusH wrote: Awesome post man my only worry is that being here in the Troub forums will it even be read because the way i see it we are as troubs going to be used less and less. I know my guild has 3 raiding troubs so we could always have 2 troubs ready to go and after the firghter changes we will just run with one which will leave 2 of us sitting. Everyone i know now wants more Illy's and dirges i see it happening in pug groups on our server all the time now. I just hope they fix us before its to late!!!!!
Carthorn wrote: At 75th level -- even with spending hours on LFG without even one response & only getting groups with guildies, thus soloing about 90% of my time -- I absolutely LOVE my Troubie, & wouldn't give him up for anything. He's replaced my 80 Swashy as my "main" now, & is the most fun I've ever had with a MMO character. Don't listen to the doom-&-gloom. Sure, people don't like us for instance groups ... big deal. Get a good guild, make some friends, have some fun. But whatever you do, do yourself a favor & learn how to "kite", IOW, getting mobs to chase you around while you nuke & shoot them on the run. Yes, it's kinda tedious, but it's FUN tedium
Flaye@Mistmoore wrote: Fun? So i can either walk up, root a mob and 2 shot it move on to the next one, or i can have fun kitting it for 3 minutes. HMMM
Ballads wrote: Everybody sees "fun" differently. For me, "fun" is doing something challenging & winning. Troubies are challenging; Swashies & Wizzies are not. I love my Troubie.
Flaye@Mistmoore wrote: You must be having a ball with all the updates since lu13. I wish i could suggest to play the commoner as a class, but it sadly has been removed.
While it can be an interesting way to play (Kiting) it's certainly not a valid reason to NOT fix the class. I really like some of the ideas listed above. I'm hoping someone is reading this...
Rayche@Antonia Bayle wrote: TBH i am so sick of kiting i have just learnt not to solo with my Troub its just not that much fun. Thats what i hope for some of the ideas here are great just dont know if the right people see it buried way down here in the Troub forums.
I play mainly for pvp. My first class was a fury and love it until 60-70 when they go completely broke and can't out heal dps and can't out dps heals. So a broken class that most people pass up for a warden instead. So I got tired of that but don't like just stunning someone and casting 3 CAs and bam the person is dead. So I rolled a troubador because at that time they didn't exist. I never had a problem getting a group because I was a very very rare class. I did grind all the way to 70 by myself or with the help of my one friend leveling his warden. That was when EoF was end game. Then enter RoK, and TSO and the more you see the troub start to take on the characteristics of the fury. Everyone else seems to be getting hooked up with upgrades and improvements to their classes. The problem with that is that they are getting abilities that the troubador used to be needed for. Now the only things that set us apart are JC and PoTM. Pretty soon you will see that stuff on gear and bam troubadors will be the next Necromancer. Completely useless and not needed. We are getting nerfed again in this fighter update, and we got our dps toned down during the big "SCOUT" dps nerf. The problem is that we are a hybrid class and don't do dps like predators/rogues. I will give credit where it is do. The new change that allows you to cast most of your spells (can't charm on the run or arrow attack on the run) was a good and needed update. But, we are still seriously falling to the wayside. Please SOE read these forums and give us some feedback. I will start posting on the PvP forums until I'm banned if I must so that we can atleast get some love.
Rayche@Antonia Bayle wrote: I wasn't suggesting that there's no reason to "fix" Troubies. I was instead telling the person to whom I responded that he didn't make a bad decision to play a Troubie, & that it's certainly possible to solo one's way through T8 by kiting. I'm much more concerned, however, with fixing Mages ... because our group role is heavily tied to theirs, & when they're seen as less than viable, we are too. OTOH, I've lately been seeing more explicit demand from TSO groups for Troubies, lately ... so I'm kinda encouraged that when I finally bang out those last two levels, I'll be getting as much group action as my Swashy does But for now I've been taking a Troubie break, chasing stuff my Swashy needs, so those last two levels are taking longer than I'd like
