Fury's get their old invis back in LU14 what do we get?

Reading your posts would make anyone think that furys are gimped or something and that is FAR from the case. Everything a warden can do a fury can do better and there is simply no comparison between the classes at the moment. I'm not even going to touch Back into the Fray, and I can see why you are trying to downplay how good a heal it is because frankly if I was a fury I would be worried about the big nerf bat being swung at it since it is simply too good to be true. Your heals are actually have cheaper mana cost than ours. Go and look at the power costs on your heals and compare it to a wardens and you will see how much less power you are using to cast yours. Sure ours may heal more, but that is over time, and time is something wardens do not have the luxury of in fights.

Damage wise don't make me laugh. Sure we have a faster recast time on our single target nuke and AE nuke, but the problem is once again related to time. I simply don't have a chance to keep spamming my nukes and HEAL at the same time. If I'm lucky I may be able to get my debuff dot in, other than that I am too busy spamming heals to try and nuke. Having to cast just one nuke for big damage is far more effective than trying to cast a small nuke several times, especially when you are trying to do the job priests are supposed to be doing which is healing. Our AE nuke also has a long cast time, and I find myself getting 'target already dead' a lot. They reduced the dmg on the wolf pack significanlty in the last few days of beta, so no we don't get a DPS boost from that either.

And don't even start on buffs. You can buff both melee and caster dps, wardens buff wis which doesn't have all that effect on resists especially given the 70% soft cap. Power pool isn't a be all and end all buff either, since gear can more than make up for not having the same wis buffs wardens have.

And then there is Duststorm vs Porcupine. The stun component on duststorm is useless on orange/red con mobs because of the high resist rate, so it's only the avoidance increase that matters. Hmm which would you take? A +1200 to all resists or a 5% increase in avoidance?

Honestly there is absolutely no reason to play a warden over a fury at the moment. Anyone who says otherwise is just afraid of being nerfed, because lets face it, given SOE's track record they are more likely to nerf a class, than fix the one that is weaker.

Chamelon totems scale now so they work just fine if you need an invis. There aren't any evac totems though.

Wow, Sorano. I could not have said it any better myself. I was actually thinking of all those things as well.

I would also Like to add that if a Fury wants to be an effecient healer all they would have to do is cast Back into the Fray over and over again when the tank is barely below 50% health

Not to mention that every casting timer that the fury's heals have (minus the single target regen) is shorter then all of the Wardens heals. Oh and the cast/recast timer of Back into the Fray is extremely fast.

Ring of Fire can do 400 dps on its own with large encounters at adept 3. Natures Ally does a little less then 200 dps and disappears as soon as the mob its on dies. Also I would like to add that Nature's Ally does not scale with the lvl of the Warden and die more easily then ring of fire.

Like Sorano said, I would much rather have a bigger nuke on a longer recast timer then to have small nukes on smaller recast timers because that way I can heal and when I have time I can drop a nuke.

Oh and Wardens get this. Duststorm master 1 gives 22 defense at 9 power cost per tick, Sandstorm Adept 3 gives 25 defense at 12 power cost per tick. That is only a 3 defense increase for a 33% increase in power cost. The effeciency on our healing spells mean nothing with that high of a power cost if we do keep duststorm up.

Tigerj you have ring of fire yet? If so wait to post comments till you have it, if you have it try to pull 10 mobs, get them in the ring, let the fury max dps and parse that. You'll be shocked.

Funny thing is ring of fire isnt fury only templars get the same exact spell but with different gfx (oh and it takes aggro like a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and can be killed its a tripple down arrow pet).
If the tree isnt working right now well then thats gonna be fixed I ve been in beta and havent heard nearly as much moaning there as Ive heard here and people loved the tree when it worked as it has been broken and fixed non stop.
I dont try to downplay furies you just want to read that in my post I was downplaying tuveds comment about furies being gods, hah dont make me laugh.
Also to compare duststrom with porcupine hah you should compare porcupine with HG and porcupine will break after 25 hits so when you put this on the tank it sometimes breaks afetr 7-10 secs depending on the type of mob so 1.6 k in resists for 7 secs every 2 mins (at times) yay!
Porcupine IS a nice spell but its a bit situational at least for the resist-mitg part of it.
Im very pleased where furies are atm and yes maybe wardens need some shaving on the edges but I wont go that far as to say wardens post revamp are as broken as furies before revamp.
As I said before they should increase you direct heals or something to like a 70-30 80-20 ratio or something.
Back into the fray is indeed a very powerful spell but if you have a tank with 5 k and hes below 50% hes like 2-2.5 k add 1.3 k heal= 3.3 k so yes that would pull him out of the orange but it isnt a complete heal like you make everyone believe and yes its cool etc. etc. but as the devs said furies should be the fastest healer reacting on (spike) dmg very fast.

Good news!

To answer the original posters question, in LU 14 we are getting:


It's about time! :smileyhappy:

Ok, I grouped with a guild fury last night, and ive talked to both of them in my guild very extensively to compare my heals to theirs, because I'm not even going there with the clerics, heh. Anyways, their DH's are for 700 ish while ours is a max of 490 with the regen component (with that being the max the person being healed doesn't even always get healed for that amount). Lets talk about the regen component. 60 a tick does [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] when the tank is getting hit for 3 times that amount, its all about the burst heal and we don't have it. Last night in the group after the fury left I was able to keep the group alive, sure , but I had to spam like crazy sometimes, and that includes not just my target DH's but also my group heal/regen plus the 2 emergency heals when they were up. We just cannot handle burst damage like the other priests can. I'm not whining, I'm stating a simple fact. I've never been turned away from a group, but then again I only group with my guildmates. I also duo'ed with a swash that said his favorite healer was a warden. If they would just fix our stacking issues and fix the tree ( and yes it is broken atm. I talk quite a bit in the warden channels across the game and I check in every so often just to see if its fixed, right now it just provides shade) , and maybe fix up our spike healing issues we would be ok. I dont want anyone else nerfed, I just want us fixed.

PS: i read the notes for 14b. and no, they still havent even addressed our issues.
Message Edited by Saben01 on 09-29-2005 06:08 AM

I can't seem to locate the 14b notes. Can you point out where they are or list them?

Edit - nm - i found them.
Message Edited by Asp728 on 09-29-2005 06:27 AM

Whoever thinks Fury healing is incredible need to get a reality check. As the only healer in a full group, I spend maybe 75% of my fights (those not against greens and blues^^) chain healing the tank with my 2 heals and 1 regen hoping that he doesn't die from constantly bouncing from 10 to 40%HP. In a trio it's the same story unless we fight low con mobs. This is with a good tank, if someone else gets aggro or there's an add i'm fubared and people die if not wipe. Even in a trio, when the wizard gets aggro he usually dies before I can heal him because of the recast timers. Before the revamp I was able to save him almost everytime. I guess it's bad that my insta heal is usually down because I had to save the tank's life with it.

That heal that does more when the player is low HP seems very nice, but that is at level 50+ and I have don't it. Perhaps that what Warden's need at a lower level to compete. I saw some of the Warden spells (not all of them mind you) and they were underpowered. Some of them were very nice because of the total HP healed but the total amount that can be healed by burst blows.

What I do have in my apparently super uber healing arsenal at level 37 is this:

- The choice between the 3 spells below because they are all on the same recast timer
Bloom (Adept III): heals for 76-92 and regens for 14-17 for 6 seconds, recast time is 5 seconds
Predatory Salve (Adept I): heals for 200-244, recast time is 5 seconds
Bounty of the Virtuous: heals for 303, recast time is 6 seconds

- The choice between the 2 spells below which are on the same recast timer
Efflorescence (Adept I): heals for 117-143 and regens for 15-18 for 12 seconds, recast time is 10 seconds
Wildling Elexir (Master II): heals for 511-624, recast time is 8.5 seconds

The regen, which ticks in the high 80's and is Adept III. (I don't have the stats with me)

That's hadly uber, I can heal somone for about 711-868 every 5 to 8.5 seconds. Templars have a level 32 heal that heals for 766-937 (master II) but on a long recast (11.5 sec). I don't know about their other spells but this is all I got to heal and nothing more.

My only saving grace is that those heals go off fast but once they are down I cannot heal anyone and I need to constantly spam them as soon as they are up or the tank dies. The other good thing is that I chose the Master II for Wilding Elexir (otherwise it heald for about 400 at adept I) and that I have an adept III bloom and adept III regen, if I didn't, I simply could not do my job, even in a trio unless we killed low con mobs.

The biggest problem I have is that I only have 2 direct heal spells I can cast. This seriously blows and I have trouble doing my job. Anyone that thinks this needs nerfing should be sedaded. The heal that scales depending on the target's HP should probably be a spell line in the druid's arsenal. Also, Wardens need their heals rebalanced from what I see but I did not see a full list of heals for a Warden my level to compare. On the ones I did see, the regen part of the heal healed a very high chunk of HP, more than 50% of the heal itself but the base direct heal was too small. So small that infact my direct fast cast heals can heal more overtime that your when you factor in the regen. That's is simply wrong.
Message Edited by RedDragon44 on 09-29-2005 07:58 AM

Fury's healing is incredible after you ding lvl 52. In fact I would even say they become the best healers at this lvl. It's cool because I think they deserve it.

However, I would like to say that even though you fury's have to wait for recast timers, pre lvl 52, you guys can at least spare yourselves a little more time then wardens. If a tank is dieing fast and warden heals = dead tank. If a fury is healing and a tank dies fast at least you can burst heal him which gives you a few more seconds to find some means of getting the crowd controlled, scout evac, or run away.

Yes I have Ring of Fire . But I am not the only class to get this type of spell. But you still can't parse on 10 mobs comming into an area and getting proper dps numbers. The best way to parse dmg on a mob is to take on a ^^^ or an Epic that has lots of HP. Then see what people can do on dmg. Ring of Fire does anywheres of 160 - 260 dmg every 3sec for 30 sec. So lets say it did max, lets toss a big number here, of 270. That is 90 points per sec. per mob in the ring. Again, this is if it hit for 270 ALL the time, which it doesn't. Also how many times are you going to pull 10 mobs into the ring? Sure not going to pull 10 ^^^ mobs at once. 10 WV Mobs is a joke to even parse and not even close to acurate.
I will have our bruiser in the guild Parse me with Ring of Fire. When I was with him and his wife, Corcer, and parsing ^^^ lev 55 I was the low man at about 120dps. But I also was healing. Now I had the Big hits in there at 1,600 and 1,968. But they were doing more dmg than I was. I will try to test it so I don't have to heal and go all out. Keep the battle unlock and have an outside group healer keep him heal. Then I can get a more acurate number on it since I didn't have Ring of Fire then.

Why do they deserve it? They are supposed to be the offensive druids. Wardens are supposed to be the healers. I think at the most we should heal equally well but if there's going to be any difference in healing abilities at all, it better be the Warden who heals better.

All though I rarely agree with a lot of what Tuved 2 has said in the past, on this one he is correct. It was totted before the game came out that Fury's would be more offensive druids and Wardens would be more defensive/healer. So how does it work that Fury's can nuke and heal better then us and from what I have been finding have some nicer buffs, or so I have read?
Although I agree they where hurting before they should not have been made better. Like Tuved said at the most made more equal. This must be fixed. No not cause I am gona quit or some stupid thing like that, it just is wrong even by what they, the Devs, have said their vision of the game is .
Wardens in some ways are broken. I can still solo farely well but when it comes to group/raid healing we suck, and after 4 years of EQ1 as a Druid/Chanter/Beast all 60+ and EQ2 since launch, I know how to play. I am with most Wardens I know and have read, PLZ fix us

We don't deserve anything except being a balanced class like anyone else deserves. Since our heals are hardly incredible before endgame, I will have to suck it up until then and hope that it really does get better. I agree that wardens should have more healing capability or more utility compared to a Fury that should have more offense in the form of nukes and buffs. That's how the classes were presented and how I chose my classe even though at release there was an extremely small difference between the 2.

However they choose to fix it, they need to increase Warden heals to be on par with the general healing mass.