fighter's heal spells too slow and weak, and cost too much mana power.

paladin's group heal are very expensive since they got hit hard by GU 57's nerfs.
few years ago, Moorguard worked hard for months to fix and rebalanced and made them better.
now GU 57 just ruined and made them too costly to cast and they are not big heals, it seem it like they only heals like 30% of base health stat when prime healers can do more.
i also noticed heal range seem to get shorter, it is hard for pally to heal the raid's main tank with too close to deadly AoE effects.
another thing i dont like having someone to tap my power for themselves and i get OOP very soon and unable to assist or heal, that is too greedy, my mana power get suddenly consumed within 20 seconds when the raids are in effect or in process.
those Tier 7 gears that has "In-combat regen" only restricted in that tier zones to loot, but there none exist in Tier 9 when those are needed so bad.
getting bards/enchanter for mana batteries only just helped abit.
new gears are definely needed for In-combat for fighter class, maybe pally would make more attractive as off-tank or bonus healer back up if they get any new "Siphon" weapons to help get back some power mana being used for "per-hit mode" for small amount.
please redo the casting cost, GU57 really mess up what was intended as designed, and that GU57 isnt right way for having the spells too expensive.
i would kill those power mana leechers because they dont have my permission to take my power mana away.

Tyrus@Butcherblock wrote:

Your not a healer, your a tank. moar

actually I am a hybrid class that should be able to somewhat do both, not as good as a healer or as a tank but can play both roles somewhat effectively. Therefore when 20% of my spells get nerfed overnight I am somewhat PEEVED that I get ZERO compensation for it. Why on earth roll a pally now? it's the non-hybrid, hybrid class. It's a joke! I have to agree with the OP here that we should at the very least recieve some compensation on the amount of power and casting time that our heals get to compensate for the 30% reduction we took to 20% of our spells.

This has already been talked about, and acknowledged that our heals need adjustment with the change. My spells were reduced by about 50% of what they did. It being our main way of mitigating spike dmg etc and helping survivability the you are a tank not a healer argument is rather stupid.

Xelgad wrote:

Maamadex wrote:

That is a fine arguement for your self only heals to be faster casting, uninteruptable and do more healing.
It isn't a particularly compelling arguement for why a fighter based group heal should equate to significantly more than they are now.

there is a problem with a group heal that does less than 10% of a MAGE's hp

Atan@Unrest wrote:

Didn't you quit?
And me not being able to keep my duo partner alive during AOE spikes anymore is BS, Atan. Its not all about the end game raiding.
The nerf tore out alot of the Paladin class and what the Paladin can do. The group heal needs to be buffed quite a bit.

Wurm wrote:

I cannot duo a lot of zones too, in which case I think the problem is that they're designed for 6 players, the way I see it buffing the players power up or nerfing the difficulty of the mobs down results in the same thing, a dumbed down game.
I'd always suggest grabbing an extra person if you have a group of less then 6 and are having difficulty, from my experience (I don't raid, yet at least ) on Runnyeye there are always loads of people eager to join a group as long as someone else gets the ball rolling.
Wurm wrote:

I think what the Paladin class could do was overpowered, much in the same way my guardian who can currently solo parts of 6 man level 90 instances in non-raid gear is overpowered. There I won't be able to do that anymore after the mitigation change proposed for test, for the games health and to encourage grouping and some meaningful challenging gameplay thats a good thing.
As for the paladins healing, the scaling was definitely wrong as I've seen myself how they equalled a dedicated healer, where they should be though I guess we'll see as Xelgad has said they are due for future changes, so I'd watch this spot.
All in all with the changes being made I'm feeling good about the future of the game, for a while there much of our end game (I don't raid so have not included this) was actually easier then WoW's, that's just plain wrong! And not something most EQ2 players are looking for judging by the friends I speak to on Runnyeye.

Well i don't see why zerkers and guardians should get any healing, but indeed it seems that they got a lot of items procing wards and heals.
For paladins it's different, the class is centered around heals and wards, it's a bit hybrid.
The solution currently in used (no more crit heals) is not too good, i would have rather decreased and even removed any ward/heal proc item. I would have turned then into item that proc 1)higher max hp without mod of the current hps, 2) higher mitigaton, block, temp higher resistance, hate increase.

I also think that crusader dps should have been decreased, and aoe max target set to 4 or 6.

i will talk about t9 only
Power/power regen is not an issue if u know where to look for gear - my personal choice would be waansu ring but similar proc u can find on anashti earing/t8 pvp earing, belt from x2, fungus spore charm ad so on... just look for gear + in-combat mana regen is just SO old and useless...
Heal/ward gear are still ur best friend for soloing/instances - stonewill proc is overkill for instances, cella earing still criticaly procs heal, zarakon wrist is still a lot for instances...
After nerf i removed all possible aa/red adorns supporting heals from my sk. You may say i double nerfed his hps - still while playing on nagafen server (where all stonewill procs are halved) easly soloded library yday for some quest updates - no named took me below green. I have no idea how ppl from blue servers with working properly stonewill can complain.
and for raids... cmon u have healers to keep u alive - i was doing around 1.5k hps b4 nerfs on raid now im doing 600 hps - and nothing else changed but numbers - my taps/wards are just replaced by healers heals/wards.
Fighters self heal/ward abilities were just OP - now they r more in line.

Thats all well and good, but you aren't a Paladin. The damage portion of your taps still crit and do damage. What the nerf did to our heals was too much. It may have been needed but not to this degree. They used to be worth casting.

imo if palys want so badly heal/ward just start asking devs for increasing ur heal/ward abilities so they would be "worth casting", but dont ask for crit heals to come back - it would affect again all fighters.

Avianna@Butcherblock wrote:

Woah, paladins are at worst the second best defensive tank so you are saying paladins should be somewhat less as a tank and a better healer instead.
Honestly that was a paladin in WoW and I hope paladins dont become the healers they are there. Paladins should have a bunch of EMERGENCY heals and saves and not become a spam healing tank class. BIG heals, LONG recast.

Gungo wrote:

Thats an apples and oranges thing there.
Paladins in WoW either Tank, Heal, or DPS. They cannot fulfill three roles at once.
It wouldn't be a bad thing if a paladin could focus on healing here at the cost of tanking. Will they replace a priest in a raid slot? By no means. But my ranger currently has a defensive build. Why? Because I'm not raiding, or even grouping, I'm soloing. There's subniches that classes should be allowed to fill. In a raid enviroment you need to be more specialized in what your role is for but in anything else, it should be fine.
If they gave paladins decent heals. Who in their right mind is going to stack them against priests? Or even other tanks? THe encounters last too long for paladins to be useful as spot healers, they go OOM too fast. In non-raid content Pallies have just enough power to do what they need to when not tanking.
"Well my class can't do that?"
We have a term in the Army called Stay in Your Lane. I suggest you do that. Don't worry about what other classes can do that you can't. Lets see what YOU can do with your class with what you got.

Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:

Not every class is meant to be able to fill in all roles. A paladin is primarily meant to be a tank, not a group healer. Please don't bring in WoW cause a wow paladin isn't the same as an EQ2 paladin. Honestly it's not the same as an EQ1 pally for that matter either. As a paladin, your heals should be more of an emergency. You shouldn't be able to replace a healer in a group. By no means am I saying that a paladin's heals might not need improvement, but the improvement shouldn't be enough to take the spot of a healer.
Now if you want to talk about doing what a class can do with what they have, that's fine. But that doesn't include asking for more heals so your pally can play the role as a healer. You're a tank first and foremost and always. You are generally not going to primarily be dps. You are generally not going be in a group for your healing ability either. Your heals are more of a patch, not to repeatedly heal an overzealous dps who either can't control aggro or someone who doesn't know how to position themselves outside of a mobs frontal. But you even said, let's see what YOU can do with you got, that doesn't mean ask for more cause your own percieved personal role as a healer is broken.
With regards to your ranger though, since you brought it up. I'm not sure if you've ever figured this out, I'm guessing the answer is no but, rangers solo a heck of a lot better with an offensive spec then with a defensive spec. That's your choice, but the faster you can kill stuff the less you have to worry about absorbing hits. Not to mention when doing it right you shouldn't be getting hit in the first place.

Yeah, last thing I'd ever want to see is a eq2 healadin... lol. Thats just silly. Bottom line is our heals lost crit, and now they suck. They can be interrupted and cost too much power for what they do. I don't care what sony does about this, whether to boost them a tad, especially the single target ones for tanking, or add effects to them to give it a bit more flavor. I agree tho that in their current state they aren't good. It wasn't my heals critting that allowed me to be "overpowered" or whatever before the crit change. It was stonewill procs, regenerating wards etc. There's a name for what trivializes heroic content. Its called raid gear...The heals just allowed for dealing with the spike dmg, and in the case of the group heal, it allowed us to heal our group up a bit after a big ae in raids etc.

what oly said, i dont agreed.
dont ever lower dps, i dont want drag out long battle as one of weakest healer.
paladin were made tougher and more "focused" than getting interupted, they only got 1 group heal at 90 lvl they can only heal 350 health per group cast. not even enough to assist other Main healer in 2nd, 3rd or 4th group, or 1st group when raid mob boss can do massive 12k-20k by deadly AoE, and often wipe group by sudden sneak chain AoE right after the first AoE.
pally got 5 different AoE, mostly designed to kill "swarm of undeads" as bonus, but useless if using on live hostiles that not undeads.
so why want nerfing any more? they never were on top DPS, they dont have high mitigation like other plate fighters, they got lots of hate effects to keep other healers and wizzy alive and from getting targeted, it was like a second line of tank defense to keep rest of group alive, without them, when main tank falls, and group will fail as pally tried to heal or rezzing because they are too slow.
often they have to become tank when if there is no bezerker or gaurdian not available, and thier armor is lower, and the heals are crap when they get hit by "Spike" which was meant for bezerker or gaurdian to handle with better mitigations and procs.
they were built wrong for any other zones except made for killing undeads, and they were suppose to be also "demon slayer", nightbloods or void are one of thier fanatical "evil" interdimensional/planar demons that paaldins were trained to kill them on sight.

Unless I'm missing something we only have 4 things that have to do with undead. A weapon dmg proc spell with bonus to undead, a group proc spell that does extra damage to undead, smite evil, and a ca with bonus dmg to undead and a stun component. We are far from being pidgeonholed into an "undead" fighter. Those things don't amount to a whole lot..Smite evil damages a lot of non undead mobs. All of the abilities still do damage against things other than undead heh. We can deal with swarms of anything.

Ok, just so you all know where I stand, I hate paladins. They whine almost as much as Rangers....almost. Now with that out of the way.........
Did everyone enjoy reading Xelgad's "here's my reasoning" thoughts?
First, do not let them rip you off by making your LOH percent based unless it's 100%. If it's 50% how much healing would you be doing on say a mystic vs a guardian? There would be a huge different on the heal amount depending on who you slap it on. So given that, if it's 100% Then it won't matter. It's not like you have a 10 sec recast timer on it. "would rather increase heal amount, increase cooldowns and, perhaps, reduce the casting time of your heals/wards" The first part, increase heal amount...wow that sounds good, reduce casting time?... woot sounds just as great!!! Increase cooldowns?....ooops that makes the other two no longer important. With longer cooldowns they are going to be available even less then they are now. Remember this is one of you're missions in life, not just tanking and they are about to nerf it to "only for use in emergencies" status.
BTW what Pally irritated SoE to the point that they are now beating you up with the nerf bat? Shame shame.

Paladins are tanks.
The above sentance is all that a player needs to think about before asking for paladin heals to be better, or when complaining about paladin heals not crit hitting.
Paladins are not a hybrid class in terms of the roles they can fulfill in a group, they are a hybrid class only in terms of how they fulfill their primary role: tanking.
Each of the fighters has a specific defensive style to how they tank. Guardians mitigate more damage, brawlers avoid more damage, paladins heal more damage. They are not supposed to be hybrid healers, they are not supposed to be able to heal a duo through an instance, nor are they supposed to be able to tank an instance without a healer.
The fact that the above things were true (and still are partially true) does not say that paladins need to be able to heal better, it says they were (and still are) overpowered, as a plate tank with rock solid aggro and heals.