Fighter Heals

CLASS PROGRESSION / ABILITY CHANGES

• Fighters
• Fighter heals can no longer critically heal.

Why should some fighter abilitys not become better, the better gear you get? All this does is mean that a fighter with no gear can heal just as well as a fighter with all the gear in the game. Let's make it so priest DPS abilitys, and mage melee attacks can no longer crit. That'd make just as much sense as this change.

A minor (but still present) issue for classes with few or no heals (Guardian, Monk and Bruiser). A moderate issue to Shadowknights (our majority self healing ability already couldn't crit). a MAJOR kick in the face for Paladins and Berserkers.

In terms of class balance this puts the class that should have the BEST ability to heal among fighter (a Paladin) even further behind Shadowknights than they already were. (Paladin Self healing is active, they have to actually cast a heal spell to do it. SKs and Berserkers heal as a passive effect, it's part of another ability for them.) Stupid idea and a MAJOR step backwards (and I don't even PLAY a paladin!)

IBTL. (I'll get to that)
Blame the person that made % based heals (of any class) crit.
This is just like the last GU, which made me /ragequit one toon but not the whole game.
Bane Warding needed a nerf because of crit consolidation and potency and crit bonus. It being essentially a proc, but mechanically different, it was missed when all other proc changes were made a year ago. Fair enough. But BECAUSE it was missed, and had therefore grown OP, they also decided it needed to be limited to proccing once every second. It wasn't necessary. It changed nothing. Everything I could solo before the change I could still solo after the change, it was just ridiculously less fun to do so; less fun to solo ANYTHING tbh.
Every thread that contained any mention of Bane Warding - whether discussing the changes on Test or not - was locked.
So clearly this one is headed that way.
But it's the same scenario. Because % based heals were allowed to crit, everyone pays. Poor, poor logic gets kicked to the curb.
And lol at Xelgad ... not at all influenced by PVP. In a Pig's Eye.

Darkonx wrote:

You aren't priests, Why do you need Heal Crits as a tank so bad, Its not going to be a big deal except for PvP and heroic instances with crappy PuG healers.

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Wow, great point. What do you need to melee/spell crit as a healer for?
It's because it doesn't change anything except PVP and life for lesser-geared or weak-healer scenarios that it's so offensive. It's OFF TARGET and if it's truly an issue it makes them look ridiculous for doing crit consolidation to begin with.

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

You aren't DPS, why do you need crit damage as a priest so bad? Because being forced into a niche job as any class is boring. Let's not start a flame-fest, let's be reasonable. Why is this change being made?

Darkonx wrote:

Take my damage crits for all I care, I'm a priest, It's SOE that has morphed healers into a Psudo DPS role too, is it fun to DPS sometimes, yes, but healers are forced into it much more. Couldn't bother me if they were gone but they would need to change encounter accordingly.

Darkonx wrote:

Problems with scaling with crit bonus, apparently. Xelgad posted that reason in the thread in the test forums...if I were awesome enough to link directly to certain posts I would.
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483428 (bottom of the page)

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Fair enough. Then retract Crit Consolidation altogether OR DON'T. Don't make it unnecessarily more complicated because you f-ed up and don't have the math skills to actually fix the problem in a more targeted manner.

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:

Tanks being able to do whole instances with no healer is right, All tanks minus Pally have enough ways to stay alive without heals with riposte, parries, death saves, Damage reductions, stoneskins, and everything.

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

Then fix the gear issue that makes that possible. My Berserker in T1 raid gear cannot solo the same mobs my Defiler in TSO crap gear can. I can't kill a single named in any instance on my own, and it's hard enough to duo the first guy in Library.
But I can on my Defiler.
I said before. % Based heals should not crit. I don't care if it's Soul Ward or Battle Frenzy. If it's percent based, it's percent based. Period. Why Reaver would be the only % based heal that works that way is beyond me. But that's the core of the problem. Gear trivializing content isn't a problem IMO, it's progression. Heroic gear trivializes solo content, raid gear trivializes heroic content.

Just saw Xelgad's post. Drain Vitae currently heals me for a decent amount, but it's not even REMOTELY comparable to something like a single stoneskin or damage reduction when tanking raids. You are just making them even more useless. You are crippling progression on tanks that use heals. There is no real reason for this change other than possibly PVP, and the PVE game should not be changed to balance PVP.

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:

Where did I say solo? I said whole zones with no healer, I've seen SKs and other tanks do all of Cella with no healer in group and such. I liked it when there was more of a line on class roles, I like when it's priests keeping the tank alive more than a tank being able to stay alive for excessive amounts of time on their owns. It's just not where this game has been going.

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

If fighters were tanking Cella without a healer before this update, they will be doing so afterward. Again, the problem is that the change is OFF TARGET. It misses the mark just like the Bane Warding nerf and only serves to hurt lesser-geared players, or decently geared players considering joining groups with lesser quality healers. All the while retracting sweeping changes they made 6 months ago.
That's what's so offensive. Fix the SPECIFIC (probably % based) HEALS that are causing the problem, don't just make wholesale mechanics changes that needlessly overcomplicate mechanics and hurt casual players on a whim.

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:

Agreed to an extent, but the heal crits needed balanced for PvP purposes, and % based for PvE and PvP

If berserker's % based heal battle frenzy was so imbalanced in comparison to guardian's last man standing, then change BF, do not change ALL healing spells. Percentage based heals have the ability to become extremely imbalanced, don't nerf ALL heals because of the few that were truly OP though. It's why reaver was made un-modifiable, it was OP. Change % based heals, do not change ALL heals, please.

Darkonx wrote:

QFE. Nerf the overpowered, don't just smack all classes with an ill thought out change. (Especiallys since critical heals have been a major part of Paladins and SKs since EQ1. I know they're different games, but the underlying mechanic in this case is the same!)
Paladins above all else are utterly screwed by this change as it renders their major survival tool (self healing) largely impotent, much like it was back in Kunark! If you're going to be giving a class healing as a survival tool and reducing the damage skills that class has as a result of it, DON'T NERF THAT TOOL INTO OBLIVION!
Again, I don't even PLAY a paladin (I'm an SK!) but seriously, screwing over 1 class to that extent is just wrong. It's an annoying change to the rest of us, but Paladins are just beaten into the floor by this.

Also SK self healing is a threat generation tool (according to our Myth Buff), so if you're reducing our healing, what will you be doing to make up for the lost threat?

http://i28.tinypic.com/dqgqav.jpg
There is the direct link to my HPS on a hardmode mob tonight, Vaclaz Released in the Underfoot Depths. The spells that you are changing include Voracious Soul (57.51 HPS), Caress Feedback (37.98 HPS) ((Only heals at all because I have a red adorn devoted to it)), Devour Vitae (17.95 HPS), and Grim Strike (15.19 HPS). Total of 128.63 HPS incoming, from me, that this nerf will modify.
http://i27.tinypic.com/2dliqu9.jpg
My only incoming ability resultant from me, that was greater than 0%, was my reactive heal, the rest were less than half a percent each.
There is a direct link to the total incoming HPS on me, on that encounter. 8479.25 healed, per second. Of that, I did 128.63 that will be nerfed by this change. I am doing less than two percent of my own incoming heals. You want to nerf those, by 100% (assuming I have 100 CB, and I always crit). That will lower my incoming heals by 1%. What are you trying to accomplish with this nerf other than to make people angry? It won't make people want Guardians in raids any more than they are desired right now. It won't change your end-game mechanics at all, except to limit soloability on certain classes, once they're geared with ALL of the gear this game has to offer.
The ONLY result of this broad nerf will to be upset your playerbase. It's a bad choice to try to balance classes like this. Please, look at percentage based abilitys, and change THOSE, do not change ALL healing abilitys, please. Saying fighters shouldn't heal themselves is akin to saying priests shouldn't DPS, or mages shouldn't melee, and I don't see you removing priests ability to crit on DPS abilitys, or mages ability to crit on melee abilitys. Or scouts ability to critically heal either, for that matter. Don't go back on crit consolidation as a panic-button for fixing a few broken percentage based abilitys, please.
I provided you parses much like you were looking for in your thread about different classes DPS capabilitys. Hopefully seeing the factual numbers will prompt you to rethink this nerf.

I knew that crit consolidation was just too good to be true. I just dont see how one type of crit chance can be taken away from one archtype and the rest still have all of their crit chance. If this is seriously just to make Guardians a better tank choice its effin stupid. Bring them up to par dont nerf the entire archtype just for one class!

Makes me wonder why they keep nerfing these things, while there is only 1 thing being the problem, which has a relatively simple solution.
Make all percent based effects unaffected except by direct means.
They already scale up with the health of the players, which is why those effects become too powerfull when they can crit. So instead of band-aid fixing them by nerfing the potency from crusader intline (and a couple of unrelated mythicals with it), and now removing crits from fighter heals (and taking all properly working heals with it), just fix the entire problem with 1 simple rule.