EQII Mechanics Overview and Upcoming Changes

Discussion in 'General Gameplay Discussion' started by Caith, Feb 19, 2021.

  1. Caith Developer

    The next round of class balance is slated for the next game update and can be previewed in the beta for the update. A brief overview of the upcoming changes include, but are not limited to:

    Assassin: Fatal Followup revamp/reduction.
    Beastlord: Warder ability, specialization, and AI update.
    Channeler: Adding support tools, primarily group and raid supporting buffs.
    Cleric: Primary focus is on a reactive revamp which integrates reactive heals into the class leveling process that increases the base heal amount as levels increase.
    Rogue: Mainly focused on an auto-attack and combat art increase with a light sprinkling of debuff updates.
    Bruiser: Auto-attack and combat art increase.
    Paladin: Ability Damage and Heal increase.
    Ranger: Auto-attack and combat art increase and adding additional support tools.

    Itemization/Power Progression Path forum questions
    • Gear unlocks – BoL got this so so right, it was honestly perfect! Please can we revert to the system previously used, a piece of armour drops and once looted will also provide an unlock for that tier & slot. (ie Solo pants drop, unlocks all solo pants for the account) This also provides opportunity for alts to spend heroic currency (which can be transferred from the main if needed) so even when unlocked it’s not a handout, it’s earned.
    • Adorn unlocks – PoP introduced a fabulous adorn unlock feature which was a huge step to making alts viable. Runes/adorns are relatively rare so require a decent amount of grind to get the right ones, being able to also get spares for an alt is incredibly difficult. PoP adorns once looted provided an unlock for that specific adorn for the account, meaning an alt could then purchase (for currency, plat and status).
    • Previous Adorns rewards – Towards the end of BoL blue adorns where added to the currency merchant for raid/heroic currency allowing alts to purchase key adorns without completing the achievement directly. It would be fab for new/returning or alts to be able to purchase this with current currency (could the be added to the RoS currency merchant?) Otherwise we have returners/alts having to go back into old content to make their characters viable now.
    • Token mission rewards – purchasable Celestials & full loot table for solo, PQ, Heroic, Raid. In place of the pot-luck/rng of mission rewards a token system would make rewards worthwhile. Not all loot in those tables are of equal value so there would have to be a scaling amount of tokens required to purchase (otherwise we could everything once and kit out in celestials). A modest and ACHIEVABLE amount for those top end rewards would give players both reason to run the zones and a clear goal to work towards. (eg 14 daily heroic missions would yield enough tokens to purchase a celestial). It still requires effort, it encourages people back into the likes of heroics because they see it worth while and also creates a routeway to provide rewards for alts (Tokens would need to be heirloom)

    Over the last few years we have iterated over several itemization and general progression methods to find an optimal balance of effort to reward, and we have found that while many of these methods satisfy a portion of that equation to some extent, they fall short in others. The most consistent metric to measure the success of each method is the amount and duration of engagement. While methods such as a direct purchase of an item with tokens are less random, they reduce engagement time as a whole. We’ve found that from a new content release to a reduction in engagement the most dependable method has been simple straight forward drops. That said, we will be increasing the amount of drops from heroic zone bosses (final boss in normal 5 boss dungeons) and all heroic challenge encounters with the upcoming game update.

    To address some specific questions that are not covered by the overall itemization and progression.

    • Green adorns – When a character starts out, particularly a new/returning player most will rely on the free gear crates at the starter zone to provide enough supplies to ‘survive the quest line’. The green adorns included in the box are BoL (which is perfectly fine) however they are level 1 and ONLY level in BoL solo zones, having them in the crate gear at level 10 would really help support the stat gap for new/returning players and alts.

    Starter merchant gear is intended to put players in a place where they can start doing overland and quest content, it is not designed to skip characters ahead into higher tier content, as that would invalidate any rewards for the solo content. The intention of this merchant and all of the equipment on it is to be replaced as soon as possible by items obtained in the expansion. These are not intended for, and will not be upgraded to, later game progression enhancements.

    • Green adorns as tradable – Green adorns are no-trade when dropped (making these heirloom would be fab, they used to be free trade completely). Once levelled and replaced due to an upgrade earned it would be really helpful to be able to trade that levelled adorn to an alt on the account (again the hard work has already been done, we are just recycling!) currently replaced adorns are destroyed as they are no-value, no-trade and well just useless.

    This is something we have been discussing internally for some time now, and in the upcoming game update leveled items (Spiritstones, Leveling Weapons, etc) will be Heirloom once experience has been added instead of no-trade.
    WhysperWynde, Hellfiren, Taka and 9 others like this.
  2. Obano Well-Known Member

    Caith
    Bruiser: Auto-attack and combat art increase.

    Nice. Seems in line with the Feedback from the beta last year.

    Hopefully "sucker punch" combat art gets a nice upgrade.

    Thank you very much for giving some attention to my class.
  3. Scrappyz Well-Known Member

    any eta on raid heart/shard fix so I don't have to waste time singly handing them out?
  4. badname912 Member

    The biggest thing that was hurting the Bruiser parse was the trigger limit. Having 2 of its best abilities (granted one requires offensive stance) being every 1-4 seconds cause it to basically feel like it never proc'd. Removing that in my opinion would do alot to balance it in comparison to the monk especially since Dragonfart is like every 0.4 sec DoT



    Def interested in the BL warder optomization… wonder what it means exactly.. gonna have to log into beta
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  5. Cusashorn Well-Known Member


    I just want to give my two cents here: Last month, I betrayed to the Bruiser class for the purpose of completing the epic questline and getting some bruiser-specific gis that only that class can get. I genuinely feel like the class absolutely needs a massive boost. You actually have LESS attacks than monks, some of which cannot be used while forward facing the enemy, and I found it a chore to find any form of attack chains (the windup on some CAs is horrible) without a suffering through a massive cooldown period (Monks will have their first CAs refreshing by the time they fire off the last.)

    I'm glad to see the class getting some much needed attention.
  6. badname912 Member


    Absolutely True!! Its more than just the small changes on that "feedback from beta" Lets hope this change works.
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  7. Corran Member

    and dirge auto attacks and combat art increases too right ? as both for dirges do complete pants ...
    Darbii Rue and WhysperWynde like this.
  8. Chubzz New Member

    Show them Briag some love and give them back their position
    Some more DPS and more Debuff would be great. + please give us back poison
    Otherwise every one is playing a Dirge / trouba or Swashbuckler

    and it´s hard to get a group as Briga/rouge our DPS is not that high and the debuffs are to low
  9. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    It would be nice if the paladin cures as "Zealous Smite" [paladin group cure] and "Cure Spells" [paladin single cure] became back an function, instead of them are complely useless, therefore the cure level with 127 is to low for solo, heroic and raid.

    Also for the paladin it would be nice if the ward on "Blessing of the Paladin" do not need to refresh 30 seconds to reach his maximum value. Then so as it is, this ward is in the fight completly useless. [comes from the AA choise of 5 points in "Blessed Warding"]

    And for the crusaders it would be nice if the ward "Aura of Leadership" would do not need to refresh 60 seconds to reach his maximum value. Then so as it is, this ward is in the fight completly useless.

    And over all classes it would be nice if the physical mitigation progression come back it the right order.

    fabric > leader > chain > plate

    ... at the moment it seems thet the plate tanks, which should have the highest physical mitigation, have the lowest and the fabric wearer, as the elementalists, have the highest values.
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  10. Obano Well-Known Member

    Monks and Bruisers have rather different play styles at this point in the game. You can't just switch between the two without making significant gear changes. The long windup on CAs would be the result of not having enough casting speed. A Monk will self-buff their casting speed via "Calm Tranquility" while a Bruiser needs to get their casting speed from gear. Casting order combos is really obscure knowledge since most veteran bruisers quit the game and CA's don't have in game descriptions anymore.

    For example take a look at "Merciless Stomp" in game there is no description but on the wiki it says "A melee attack that does additional damage if the target was recently affected by a knockdown effect and knocks them down again." This means if you stun the mob first and then hit stomp this CA will do a lot more damage. Problem is it is really hard to use on epics because some epics can't be stunned or have temporary stun immunity from having been stunned by another player. This is why some bruisers will do really good in heroics but then fail in raids.

    Drag is another example of a Bruiser combo ability that few people know how to use. Clicking drag and then taking a step backwards will expose the mob's back to you so you can do positional attacks. Drag will also prevent the mob from auto-attacking you so it is also a defensive ability against a single enemy. Again it doesn't always work on epics but it is great when it does. Personally I think Bruiser combos and CA rotations are more interesting than Monk ones but that just comes down play style preference. Bruisers don't really play like any other class in the game. Main reason I have stuck with the class even if it is weaker than Monk.
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  11. Tunes Member

    Massively disappointed to read your post Caith.

    Engagement and Enjoyment aren't the same thing. That you're forcing us to grind to see what happens with an RNG vs allowing us to enjoy the game and play the way we want are different things. Your argument reads like a justification of Stockholm Syndrome.

    I see very little in your post which addresses new players returning or helping those people who have to change class when their class gets ruined by a "fix".

    I see nothing which addresses the "mechanic" of putting raid strats in to Heroic zones which cater for only one style of gameplay. Also nothing about removing some of the very high requirements to be effective in those zones.

    The addition of the extra loot in challenge heroics may force more people to play them. All I hear from people is that they hate doing them (and still don't know anyone who's finished them all).

    I'd advise caution when you see "engagement" go up in those zones. That people are doing something is not the same as enjoying something.

    What I'd love to see is some actual customer satisfaction research. Asking ALL the players what they think of the expac and giving us the opportunity to provide you with some empirical data.

    As it stands, this expac will be my last, and I've played since launch. I'm fed up of the needless roadblocks and my toons being made sub par on a whim and having no viable options to play something else instead (for example I spent all summer doing ethereals so "earned" my progress. If I roll a new toon today they have no coins so whilst I can level the items for free - I can't actually purchase them. I'd need to find someone willing to run Sol Ro - heroic and raid).

    If you nerf a class at expac launch without letting us gear up our alts to play something else instead you're forcing us out of the game.

    The bruiser stuff is great for example, I have a bruiser languishing at level 100. Even if you fix it I won't be able to play him as he'll be hopelessly under geared. Despite the fact that I earned the equivalent items on a different toon.
    .
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  12. Drona Well-Known Member


    I came to post exactly this and you described the situation much more eloquently that I ever could.

    Not a single person I know like to grind the PQ yet they do it since right now they provide some of the best loot while hating PQs. This will have long term damage to the game even though the engagement factor goes up in the short term. As a game designers, you guys should know this by now!
  13. Obano Well-Known Member

    Mechanics and Heroic zone design are handled by different Devs. There will be some big changes to Heroic zones coming soon. See this post by Chrol:

    With the next hotfix, though, nearly all insta-kill mechanics will be removed from all Reign of Shadows heroic bosses, with the exception of Savage Weald: Backwoods Brawl [Challenge]. That should push these zones further into the PUG-friendly area, which is where they should have been from the start.



    ...just reduced a number of offensive stats across the board for all [Heroic] bosses, and removed Defensive Breach I from their sustained damage AOEs.
  14. Sadus New Member

    thanks for posting this update caith. could you possibly explain what you mean by ai update for beastlords?
    WhysperWynde likes this.
  15. Flatline Well-Known Member

    I got banned this morning for expressing the same sentiments as well...

    The fact we can get censured on official company outlets for posting oppinions which are non abuse nor rude - unless verbiage like "im insulted that the RNG raid crates are considered a way to gear alts" or "you call it engagement i call it forced punishment" does raise concerns @dreamweaver @Jchan.

    Then again, i now have one less thing to engage into (also i dont think engagement means what he think it means)
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  16. Ryve Ryver'Fish

    Hi Caith

    Firstly thank you taking the time to read our thread and reply to the points, this is an awesome step to engage with the community :)

    Class balance/amendments
    • It's promising to see some further class boost/lovin's on the table. Can I just be clear, my OP was to see those neglected classes raised and brought up to compete with similar classes, for example Rangers desperately need tweaks. I never would want to see assassins nerfed, or have abilities reduced, I don't see the nerf bat as a solution. Please reconsider this approach.
    • On the topic of class balance and revamp - is there more in the pipeline than outlined above? For example Shamans (particularly Defilers) are not in the best spot right now, wards are 'funky' at best and they have little to offer in ways of utility/buffs/debuffs. Whilst I appreciate changes take time, it would be reassuring to know that there is more to come (again on the lines of bringing the neglected classes 'up' rather than nerfing others)
    • The dreaded 'nerf bat' has wider implications also - particularly on the more casual players who are already having a tough time this expansion. To reduce/restrict their characters now, further limits how they can progress in the content.
    • The reply above, also does not address the huge disparity between melee and caster T1/T2 dps this expansion. The scales here a way off, again this is a plea to help those melee classes up a step and not to nerf casters.
    Itemisation/Progression path
    • Effort vs reward - I'm sorry, but the approach outlined above is not what we want nor is it the best approach to find balance with engagement. It's honestly, the easiest to implement (for you & team). None of my suggestions were 'hand outs', they were clearly defined paths to achieve those rewards with clearly defined efforts. Currently the players are wildly stabbing in the dark, with no direction, this is not fun, it's not engaging and it's certainly not balanced. My approach of tokens and earning a reasonable amount of currency to purchase items would see players completing content to earn those rewards, there was nothing in my thread that promoted handouts or freebies.
    • RNG is not fun, it's not engaging whilst lots have suffered through because 'we must grind' I guarantee you, they are not enjoying it and I would be highly surprised to see people stick around if this continues to be the model used.
    • If a player can log in a 'spud alt' once run a set of PQ's and be dripping in Celestials in a small of amount of time vs someone who plays regularly, completing heroics, solos, raids, PQ's and everything in between and have 0 .... can we please get some clarification on effort vs reward here and that all important balance? (I can't be the only one in that situation, but yes I really do play daily, 'engaging' in the content and have had nothing)
    Starter gear/Green adorns
    • Apologies, I don't think I was clear enough here. I absolutely agree that the free crate should be just enough to get you going, but replaced quickly with the quest line and/or solos. My point about the green adorns being level 1 and request to have them at level 10 was to support those returning or those who have had to change characters (supporting their guilds or due to the nerf bat). The green adorns in the crate do not level in RoS, and having them already at max level would support with just a small stat increase whilst those players worked through the content. Green adorns are not all too common, so whilst the free gear gets replaced very quickly often the green adorns take significantly longer. As an example, i've ran heroics every day since launch (a couple of days into launch after questing) and in those 2 months, I've seen 1 solo green adorns and 2 heroic greens (of which I didn't win, bad dice on my roll). This was a minor suggestion, aimed to address the gap and provide a support in the interim.
    • There was nothing addressing Ethereal items/coins as outline in my OP. Please clarify
    • There was nothing addressing Prestige AA's per my OP. Please clarify
    • Fabulous to hear we are on the same page and you are implementing a way for green adorns to be traded :)
    • There is no comment on adorn unlocks as suggested in the OP. Please clarify.
    • There is no comment on mount/familiar xp as suggested in the OP. Please clarify.
    Additional points
    • The OP here does not address other aspects of my thread, more importantly the drive to support the more casual player base, those returning, those changing characters to support guilds and newbies. I really would urge you to reconsider the suggestions, whilst there was lots more I wanted to add and ask I picked the most important points to bring balance, clearer paths for progression to improve QoL. Whilst I very much appreciate the reply and update, I feel there is still lots unaddressed and the justifications for maintaining RNG insufficient.
    • The outlined changes above do not address the huge climb for casual, returners and newbies. If we continue on this path there is no way for them to catch up and be effective in end game content.
    Please do not consider this closed, I see this as the beginnings for an open conversation and more importantly compromise. There is lots of great suggestions both here and in the original thread, please do reconsider them. Please, go back to the original thread, put it all back on the table and in a constructive manner review the justifications for what we asked to see what is possible. If anything is not clear, just ask.
    Finally, yet again I'm going to raise Discord and the moderations. This seriously needs to be addressed, 3 friends have been banned this morning for comments about this thread, the comments did not break the rules as listed. Can I recommend that Discord rules are either reviewed, maybe there is some additional rules or restrictions that need to be clearly outlined to prevent this OR there needs to a consistent process/policy for bans, with 1 or 2 moderators only. Let's be clear 'I don't like what they said' is not a viable reason to ban someone. We're adults, take it on the chin and move on, unless it genuinely breaks the rules. There is no governance, no accountability, no record or monitoring of bans. Providing a warning prior to a ban would be a more fair and balanced approach.
    Ryver'Fish
  17. Flatline Well-Known Member


    Does this include Ethereal items ? while they are not weapons, they are etc. they are leveled items?
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  18. Flatline Well-Known Member


    I totally agree with all of the above, and couldn't have put it better myself.

    Hopefully there will be a response.
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  19. Sinreaper New Member

    Assassin: Fatal Followup revamp/reduction.??

    What and why if the plan is to get rid of peps in a game thats allrdy thin on all servers, just go right ahead one thing is for sure my sub is gonna be canceled if this NERF goes ahead. been playing this game sins beta and find it strange to say the least that this kinda behavior from daybreak is happening, so get a grip and dont be idiots
    WhysperWynde likes this.
  20. Lordowitch New Member

    It would also be nice to go a bit over Brigands Abilty, since few years the big hits Dispatch, Murderous Rake, Debilitate and.. doing likely 0 Dmg, some aren't even worth to cast at the Moment.

    They should be at least around 3-5 % of overall dmg.

    Thanks for having a look!
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