I know the primary function for a Dirge in pvp is to be a nice little buff bot and sit in the corner while the big boys and girls play.. but as a dirge who likes the possibility of someday killing another player on his own I have a few complaints. As a disclaimer.. I do not expect the solutions I provide to be THE solution, but I do want to start up the chain of thinking that might stimulate some changes being made. So, please feel free to bash my ideas or add your own. Firstly - Disease dmg!? With SK's on the loose, everybody buffs up their disease resistance as much as possible. This takes the SK dmg from too high to just high enough.. while it takes the dirge dmg from low to non-existant. I would think arcane dmg would be acceptable as a substitute but I would love to see mental damage along with the Troub, since lets face it.. what damage type can music really cause!? Its hard to yell out disease at somebody.. but realism aside, I believe the dmg type needs to be re-evaluated. Second - DEFENSE... As a "Jack of All Trades" a dirge must use abilities ranging from melee to spells to ranged damage in order to effectively utilize his dmg output. This also makes each dmg type much less potent than a specialized melee class or spell class. I can accept the fact that dirge dmg output just NEEDS to be lower than all other classes just because of the variety and versatility the class possesses.. but what about defense? If dirge offense NEEDS to be lower than average why wouldnt they receive a break and have better than sub par defense for PvP? How about a song that gives spell resistance to more than just noxious? How about a self buff that gives something besides moderate stat increases? How about a CC immunity buff or CC break out spell? How about some debuffs that actually do something to at least slow the killing power of an oponent? The common answer is: because they are scouts and scouts are supposed to have little to no defense to counter their insane damage... but both bard classes have 1/4th the dmg output of any other scout so they cant be on the same scale when defense is concerned. The least that could be done is to throw some more CC to the dirge (such as a stifle instead of daze) or something to give it any kind of defensive edge. As it is now... if a dirge doesnt run in pvp, they die. I just think they should get more defense than a faster run song to better run away with. Third - MELEE... The Dirge is the melee buff bard. All the songs the Dirge possesses are to increase melee capabilities. Why then, do Dirge's only have 2 primary melee CA's with a semi-useless positional and 2 stealthed attacks, one of them never used. Lets give the poor little dirgey more to work with when he gets in melee range of a player. Maybe a melee stun other than cheap shot or a frontal positioned attack that debuffs a stat like the rogues get or a low dmg CA that stifles target. Im not requesting this to add more damage output to the dirge because I know thats a huge no-no and I would be happy with another melee CA even if the CA's we already possessed were lowered in damage to compensate. I'm Just tired of running up to a target in pvp and unloading my 2 CA's before running away. I would much rather give myself a reason to keep myself in melee range to make use of all my nifty melee-improving songs. Overall, the dirge got the short end of a very long stick as far as PvP is concerned and I think more could be done to help them out. I'm posting this to get any input from anybody on these issues. Please feel free to shred my ideas or add more to them!
Zekly wrote: I do not play on a pvp server nor do I pvp often but I think you have the wrong idea on what a dirge is really and i would like to point out a few things to perhaps get your mind in the right setting. Dirges have been using disease for much longer than SK's have been uber.Sk damage will be reduced in the near future it is enevitable mr. anderson.On that same point why is it so absurd to sing a song that makes someone sick to their stomache? We also do have a few mental damage spells just not many. I believe for arcane we leave that to the troubs. On your second point bards play an unique roll in not just our own fighting stance but the group as well. As you know we do not have offencive or defensive stances like most other classes. We do all that through our songs. Dirges pack an incredible defensive buff the wailing elusion line. When upgraded at its top level it adds like 50 parry and 800 mitigation? Making even your wizards tanks. As far as other resistances thats what the troubs have Dirges are the masters of disease and this just adds to that factor. Our self buff isnt the best thing in the world but what you want to look for on that is not that stats increase but the Proc it adds which can be upgraded and used in combination with your 5000 other procs youll get. And dirges dont do CC thats left to the troubs as well we have the ability to rez fallen members. Now as far as debuffs to keep your enemy from killing? Lanets is a good one. The stifle on that will make any mage or healer cry that combined with our blue aoe which interrupts,and our defence debuff that interrupts and that all pwoerful chime of blades where each proc interrupts. When i do pvp of any sort I never get close and i pick my battles. Me fighting a plate is not going to work i can tell you this now. So when i fight a scouty i run around and get my debuffs in. 4 greens,jaels,lanets,and when im all done with them its time for cry of banshee, chimbe of blades and to jump into the fray. When its a caster its chime of blades and kill if done right right the caster will never get a spell off. Our superior running speeds let us keep up with any fleeing mages or healers. Most of the stuff your looking for be seems to be all on a troub. A dirge is just that a dirge. No more no less. The way i see a dirge is pretty much as a trophy wife. Tote her around town show her off to your friends. Noone cares if she is smart,caring and so on. As long as she looks good.and we do that good
Zekly wrote: I don't know if it's different in pvp but in pve predators get insane avoidance with their defensive stance (which also doesn't affect their offensive skills) and with TSO AAs it also gives a good amount of mitigation. Brigands get tons of mit and swashy get a good amount as well especially if they go sta line.
I am an 80 Dirge and I can kill some of the best players on Vox. It is not about our class being under powered, it is about the right gear, the right AA, spell quality etc. I have been playing my Dirge since level 1 as my main and I can assure you we do just fine. I see your stats show about 120 kills and almost twice that in deaths. With being level 80 I can only assume you either flew to 80 in instances and never PvPed or bought the toon. Either way, you have very little pvp experience on that Dirge and I am sure you will find as you learn your Dirge and how it combats other classes you will get better. I am by no means an authority on anything, but I have lots of experience as a Dirge and a few great combos I find work very well in pvp so feel free tp hit me up with a Private Message (PM) if you want =) Good luck out there. PS Check out some of the PvP videos for Dirge, here are mine. Video 1 - Right click and save as - ~11 mins @ 181MB Video 2 - Right click and save as - ~15 mins @ 185MB Killque
My only complaint is that Battle Cry cannot be used on ourselves. That really sucks and is wrong. look up dps and see the threads and that will help with casting order. I know people fear dirges with myths in pvp. I hear it all the time that healers get blown up by dirges. Dirges are loved in pvp groups and can dps as I know by fighting a certain exiled drige on naggy..
bard pvp is not for the feint of heart... might I suggest rolling an sk??? lulz..jk!!!!!!!!!!! NO MORE SKS! but yea...pvp as a bard is tricky. In the lower tiers, I could often go toe to toe with brigs and other scouts...but as I got higher, the damage output of me vs other classes became wider and wider.... once I got to that point, I had to learn how to kite. That is, keeping my enemy at a distance, and using only ranged spells. certain classes are easier than others...but, that is the same for any class when they fight 1v1's... check out some bard pvp vids if you can, and try and learn all your spells...we can do a lot, in the right hands, with some good experience : )
Azekah1 wrote: There are a LOT of 80 dirges on the PvE servers that have no clue how to kite or even solo. For PvP, those sorts of things would seem to be necessary. That's what comes with FoTM status, and it's been a year. Once upon a time, dirges were like ghetto defilers with their sacrificial heal and rez as well as disease damage, and the weakest of the scouts for dps, it was all about the buffs/debuffs. Troubs were low-end chanters with a mez and charm with mental damage and slightly better dps. There used to be a structure, though now you can't see it with the poison procs and huge parses. I don't really care, but to ask for MORE muddling of the classes? Rogues are getting that treatment next, why break bards too?
hummm. Kite? With my myth it is far easier to kill most classes without kiting. Let the troubs kite. Of course with all the SKs and pallys I am really starting to need to take a step back to put my buffs back up as they normally see me and immediately remove 50% of my buffs.
