It's as simple as this. I am not a Dirge but my friend and primary grouping partner is. At this point I am a 20 SK. while he is a 21 Dirge. As a group we rock I really have no complaints. But, In EQL we we're a Bard, Druid tandem. So I can simpathize with some of the issues he has, having played with him before and having been a simular class as EQL goes. In soloing I can easily manage to take out an Orange Solo (well not easily, but I'm not fearing death). Mean while my Friend who is a 21 Dirge cannot. Doesn't even have a chance. And that's against a White con for him. (BTW I'm guaging these results from Nek.). I must say EQ2 must correct this issue. The Dirge calss needs something added not taken away that can help in its soloing ability. ANd yes if it means bringing back Kiting than by all means it needs to be done. If I remember correctly the Devs at EQ2 we're trying to make the characters more equal in there ability to solo. Well, with a Dirge it is obviously not the case. My friend is an expierenced EQ player. And is a consummate gamer. I would strongly disagree that he has not found the best way to play his character. WHich leaves one final conclusion. The DIrge STinks. ANd needs to be fixed.
You are basing this opinion on the first 2 levels of Dirge and you haven't mentioned whether your friend has upgraded any of his abilities. The Dirge is not meant to be a primary tank, as witnessed by some of it's best (Bard) attacks which must be done from the side or behind. Why don't you and your friend give it a chance instead of jumping to conclusions?
I'm a level 20 dirge and I can take out orange opponents that are marked to be solo. White arrow up marked solo might be a problem. It's close call. How is your friends gear? Any chain stuff or is he in light armor still? What weapons does he have? Has he upgraded his abilities? Does he know what songs to sing during 1 on 1 encounter? How does he start the fight? Does he understand importance of parry disc and other songs? So many questions and so few answers in your post. And complaining about support class solo ability is quite bad anyway. We have some of the best group buffs, better dps than any fighter class and not that much far away from rogue class. We increase groups dps and power regen even during the encounter and have plenty of debuffs to choose from. Dirges are not ment to solo, Scouts are pure dps or dps-support classes. Even with our good group utility, dirge can solo non stop white-blue cons that give very decent exp while killed in great numbers and fast. If you are not willing to provide any more information about your friend or what you were fighting, I dont really see any point continuing this thread. Overall, I'm extremely happy with my Dirge. Maybe your friend should change his class. Dirge's are fine. ps. kiting is lame, dev's have stated it's not coming back. and that's good.
I'm not complaining at all about a Dirges group value or group ability.. If you've found a good way to solo with them plz tell me how you do it. As I would like to pass the information to him. I'm part of a domino effect of complaints. I'm looking for answers, and since I've got your attention. What is the best way to solo with a dirge. Sorry I don't know the particulars of what songs he uses when he solos. I'm not sure of his current gear. All I know is he has upgraded and still can't solo what I can. I'd have him post, but he won't, he'll just complain to me about it so I'm trying to get Answers. PLease give me answers p.s. never said I liked kiting... just don't see anyway for him to successfully solo higher cons. Message Edited by yipeeskipee on 11-27-2004 01:35 AM
I am also play a Dirge (22) and even with mediocre gear (some grey armor pieces but good weapons) I could solo fair enough. White cons are fine, even managed a group of 4 green the other day. I usually cast rousing tune, songsters luck and haste onto myself when soloing, make sure to have drink / food intus and use my solo HO liberally, which means as often as it can be restarted. Then I have 3 melee styles and one shout to use while fighting frontally, and I usually start from stealth - either with a stealth attack or a flanking style. Oh and dont forget to use the parry increase in tough fights. So far my dirge isn't too bad to play, though I had a hard fight with myself if I should restart as a swashy. Will stick with the dirge for now and see how he comes along. Overall I don't have the feeling of being underpowered at all compared to the other classes.
The Drige is absolutly useless after the remaked the Song Damage of Lanets! Out "best" Song has 3 SECOND CASTTIME need 51 MANA and has 50% chance of to be restisted! After 15 Second this debufff make 70-90dam only! IS SOE STUPID?! The **ZOMG** debuff in this song is TOTALY USELESS! and for 70-90dam I pay now 51mana 3sec casttime and have to wait 15sec? LOL **ZOMG** OFF SOE! I hate you for this change! I played Beta till lvl26 and you remaked this Song when I already are lvl28 in release! **ZOMG** YOU! Thats so unballanced look at the Coecer! They got 4 DoTs which can put at once on a Mob in fight and have a 300+ dam Nuke every 6 sec recasttime! and have all other cool stuff like mezz slow and and! WHY you make the drige soo weak?!
I hope that was sarcasm... You can't judge ANY class by the first 5-10 levels of it. Besides, SOE said they aren't done examining that ability so don't freak out people.
actually you can judge the class by the first 5-10 levels... so far all i am is a power regen ***** and a debuff *****... wheres the damage come in? i was told (by SOE and fansites) that Dirges would sing damage and debuff songs on the monster... i had damage, Lanet's was awesome... now ive got nothing... in groups i do mediocre damage (at best) and my debuffs arent something i would be proud of either... decreased agi/str has had no visible effect, and decreasing their resistance to piercing, slashing, and crushing has also had very little effect... my biggest noticeable spell is a group buff and isnt one of the good debuffs SOE promised me... point in fact, post Lanet's dirge... i dont see why im playing... pre-Lanet's dirge and i had a purpose... my debuffs visibly did something... they went from adding like 2-3 dmg per hit and nuking for 300+ to adding 2-3dmg per hit, and thats it... ive started working on my alt character, because a Post-Lanet's dirge just wasnt what i had in mind... fix the skill and you will fix my desire to play a dirge
Dirges DO get damage CAs and Debuffs, just like the site said. But Bard subclasses are meant to be a support class. If you have ever looked at a list of all the songs and combat arts that Dirges get post-level 25 you would see that you indeed cannot judge it by the first few abilities you get. Don't be ridiculous.
i am post 25... i have those skills... they're worthless... they say darksong blade is a high dmg attack... it does around 90dmg off the bat, then 18 for 4 ticks over the time span of like 20s or so (not entirely accurate on times, its off memory)... and thats adept... id hate to see app1... if that high dmg, im starting a bruiser
Well, yeah. If you want to be all about damage and less about buffing/debuffing and support, go with a bruiser. Makes me wonder why you went with a Dirge in the first place...
i dont want to be ALL damage... i was promised damage... i got a fist full of nothing... my most powerful skill is piercing shriek, that i got as a bard at like lvl 12... everybody has said since concept that dirge = Debuff and Dmg and Troubadors = Buff and Defense... i see troubadors with their buffs and such... i see dirges with just debuff... granted i never thought id be out damaging wizards or assassins... but i get outdamaged by druids and shamans... correct me if im wrong, but im supposed to do more damage than a priest, right? Message Edited by gsn42 on 11-27-2004 03:54 PM
I am currently a lvl 33 almost lvl 34 Dirge on permafrost server and I have to agree that nerfing lanets totally screwed the dirge subclass. I almost always group with a troubador about the same lvl as me and he is much more useful to the group than I am now. The 400dmg tick from lanets really helped make up the difference between us before but now it is gone. Lanets isn't worth casting in its current form. If they really wanted to stop people kiting with lanets they should have made it to where you can't cast it while running. If people had to stop to cast it kiting wouldn't be worthwhile at all but the spell would still be useful in a group or solo. Brock 33 Dirge of Permafrost
Ok but why is everyone so fatalistic about it? It clearly says in the update notes that they aren't finished working on it so I am sure they will get enough feedback to do what is right for the class. Why not do something productive like /bug it or something so they get more in-game feedback rather than coming here and proclaiming that Dirges officially suck? Why can't you give SOE a chance to finish up what they are going to do with that spell? Message Edited by Ailsa on 11-27-2004 06:12 PM
I am not proclaiming dirges suck. Although, looking back at my last post, it looks like it. I am simply stating we are not equivalent to the other bard subclass anymore. As for why I am on the forums posting about it. This is an issue that should have been adressed during beta. SOE gives a subclass a snare, power regen, and a large damage spell which can be cast while running. How many brain cells does it take to figure out people are going to kite? Brock 33 Dirge of Permafrost
is this your first MMO alisa? this is the way 99% of all MMOs work... the devs "fix" something (similar to Lanet's fix) and the community complains... instead of fixing the previous skill that they destroyed, they "fix" the skills they are being compared to... IE, we say Lanet's is good, it puts us up there with assassins and wizards, etc... what do the devs do? "fix" (aka nerf) the assassin's and wizard's skills... thus, making this SWG part II... basically... this is how it starts... a perfectly fine skill that people found an exploit in gets shafted... but it doesnt stop there... it snowballs until i quit the game along with 40% of the other players because every class from Dirge to Inquisator has been nerfed to high hell... we're just trying to avoid possible armagedon
No this is not my first MMORPG. I have been playing MMORPGs since the UO beta test (DAoC, SWG, AC, AC2, even a bit of the original EQ). I am just trying to be positive, not negative. They didn't say in the update notes that they were going to tone down other abilities, they said they aren't done looking at ours. I choose to be hopeful, so sue me. Message Edited by Ailsa on 11-27-2004 08:35 PM
well, im not trying to say that theres no reason to be hopeful... but this is how it starts... its never ended well and "we're still looking at it" doesnt mean they're just looking at our skill... they're looking at board feedback and our skill in comparison to every other classes skill... imo, the dirge so far needs to be upgraded... Lanets was fine the way it was, and id like to see actual results from my debuffs... my dmg increases like 5-10 on a special attack... where it did 80 or so, with crescendo, cacophony, and discante it does 85-90... granted thats just my damage and it might be a greater number for other players, but thats only 5-10 dmg... our entire purpose is to debuff (from what ive seen, their AC and dmg dealt)... so far i havent seen noticeable differences... im just basically a walked +30str/sta/agi and power regen buff... a troubador can do that... and in later levels, does it better
I'd have to agree with FBards. I've grouped with people who have played with troubadours and they like me a lot more. When soloing I can still take yellows/oranges in Enchanted Lands. Now I haven't specifically compared myself to a troubadour of the same level, however I can still say that Lanet's update did not nerf my existence. Now, I'm not sayiing that I wouldn't want it changed back to its original power and update it so that it either costs more or has a shorter range but it still is useful. I pull with Lanet's when in groups and also do what I'd say is our trademark dot "Trickster's Grasp" with it. If you haven't done Trickster's Grasp with Lanet's then you aren't using it at its fullest. I can also still pull hate quite easily with my current abilities, so I think I bring great dps to the group. In recap, I can still solo yellows and oranges(with downtime) and still mow through a lot of blues/whites. Now if we want to discuss something, lets discuss Luda's Wicked Warble. App I of this ability does not do more than Piercing Shriek Adept I. I was told that all spell upgrades will do more at app1 level than the Adept level of its predecessor. I used App 1 of this new ability for 25% of the level after I received it and ended up putting Piercing Shriek back in until I went to town to get App3 of Luda's Wicked Warble.
