I'm a slayer, not a tailor! I leave the manual labor to the haeth'uns! That is one of the things they are good for, after all! *grins hatefully as I slip back into the shadows to head to Felwithe to collect some more ephemeral slaves*
personally i am for anything to keep harvesting bots and broker farmers away from these nodes. in beta i would see them all the time. since launch i have seen only one which a low level toon beat me to. this was ok as it was a crafter since he had goblin faction. i have to admit i only actively looked for these nodes only a few times as i rarely am in the first instance and rely on my house plants for rares.
I hate tradeskilling, personally. I have 18 toons and 2 tradeskillers. ....one for each server. And the only reason I leveled them was for track harvestables. So I can harvest and sell rares...my main form currency generation in Norrath. Why should everything be effortless & easy? If you want to accomplish something, just go do it...be it gaming or real life.
It's not crying, for some reason people that have zero input usually call anything that they don't understand or have input on crying, it's a troll keyword, it's there way of dodging the subject when they arte unable to provide any constructive input, it's Troll tactics 101 "Use a keyword like Crying"
For all of those folks in this thread who claim that it's asking for a handout, or asking to be given something for no effort - would you then suggest that the time and effort you spent leveling your harvesting skill is more valuable than the exact same time and effort that an adventurer put into their harvesting skill? This is about harvesting, and the availability of basic materials, not whether or not a player chose to also level crafting. If you would like special treatment or to be given a handout, for the minimal effort (as stated by others) required to level a craft, then just say so. Adventurers have 'gone and done it' to level up their harvesting skill just as much as those who have chosen to craft. Adventurers are no less dedicated to keeping up with their harvesting skills than crafters are, so to claim that they deserve less for it is passive-aggressive butt hurt. No one has asked for a handout. No one has asked for something for no effort. What I did say is that I agree that a change was needed, just that I don't think this was a good change. I think a better one, as suggested earlier in the thread, would have been to restore the skill requirement (500) to that particular node, that way everyone who had worked equally on their harvest skill would have a chance at the rares - and the crafters would still have an advantage in their ability to track resources without aid of devices. It's about harvesting, not crafting (which should be addressed separately).
Every character can have a tradeskill that can be leveled to 90 and get the AA needed to harvest the node. No one is excluded, except those who do not wish to put in the effort necessary for the reward. There is nothing to complain about.
It is not basic materials, it is rare - you can still go harvest basic materials without the AA line. So, using the above logic - as a Tradeskiller (who I am not - I just did what is required) I should be able to make raid level gear because I have put in the dedication to level my TS just like an adventurer has put in an effort to level their toon to do raid content?
You are assuming these are 'basic' materials. They aren't. They are all rares and due to the nature of the plant they are from, they are what we've been calling ultra rares. They are special by their very nature. Just because something is labled "mastercrafted" doesn't mean it's regular old master crafted. The regular old master crafted for level 100 is the stuff we make from ToT rares. The KA stuff is unusual. And I just have to point out there are crafting items that have been only available to crafters if they also adventured or if they purchased it from adventurers for quite a while now. Now the shoe is just on the other foot. I don't think it's such a horrible thing. If adventurers don't craft, they would have to pay or otherwise get a crafter to make their items for them anyway.
I have to go with Tekka on this. For the entirety of the games existence adventurers could go out and harvest rares in order to have a crafter make the items they need. With this change, that is no longer possible. Adventurers are now dependent upon crafters to not only supply the rare but also to make the items. Basically, crafters now have an absolute lock on the rare market. Whatever price they might want to charge an adventurer has to either pay it, or simply forego the crafted item altogether. I think crafters defending this are being a bit shortsighted. For one, they'll have to pay more for rares themselves if their own harvest efforts and house plant work aren't enough. Supply will be down so demand will force prices up. Second, the steep pricing this will create will invariably reduce sales. Why would I spend 30k on item x when I can just go farm AS zones and get something comparable for nothing more than my time spent playing? Since Tekka has drawn out some trolls I suppose I also ought to note that I'm not personally affected by the change either as virtually all of my adventurer toons are also level-cap crafters.
The core problem of crafting is that it is too ******* boring: You stand next to the crafting machine and repeatedly press the same buttons all over again. And now you are actually forced to do this to get rares in the new zones.
This, very much this. Any time there are crafting materials, special apprentices, recipes, etc 'locked' behind adventure or raid requirements, crafters are told to go out and adventure or just pay for what they want. The few times (maybe as many as 4 or 5 now) that there is something adventurers want that is locked behind being a high level crafter, there is a hue and cry raised that adventurers shouldn't have to be crafters (or pay crafters) in order to get this or that crafting component they want.
They are basic materials. The ToT master crafted gear is tuned for ToT content. The KA master crafted gear is tuned for the stat system and requirements that are needed for the new expansion. Functionally they are the same category of gear, and part of the same gear progression, as previous expansions. There is nothing special about the gear as it pertains to the expansion. Furthermore, these rares are not equatable to special harvests that are only used for quest crafts or updates. This is not about the crafter or the crafted item, it's about the harvesting skill. Poor implementation of the nodes and the ability to acquire the rares doesn't make this in any way better than the scarcity food rares for ToT. As to the last point - No. I, and some others I know, craft items for friends and guild mates if they provide the rares. I know adventurers who exchange rares they can't use to crafters who have the rares they need. Again, this is not about crafting. I'm not bashing crafters, or suggesting they be denied anything. If crafters would like to be given something exclusive and special, then ask for it, make suggestions, etc. This is about harvesting - a skill available to everyone, that prior to this point could be utilized by everyone, to gear themselves up appropriately.
And like-wise, I would suggest that forcing those who just want to craft and decorate to adventure to be able to access basic materials is not a good decision as well. I'm not talking about special apprentices, special recipes, or special harvests required for crafting updates, these are basic rare materials used in the exact same manner as rares in previous expansions that were accessible to everyone that had worked on their harvesting skill, that there is no corresponding new common materials doesn't change the fact. More than once I've sighed in frustration when I found out a really neat house item I wanted was plunder from some ridiculous raid zone I'd never see. That crafters have gotten the short end in the past is no reason it should be given to everyone else in retribution, when they have put in the exact same time and effort on their harvesting skill. And crafters still maintain an advantage in rare acquisition in that they can convert their goblin to a rare plant.
As Finora pointed out, these are not 'basic materials'. They are super rares... like the other nodes in AoM that required the same tradeskill prestige to see.
I'm pretty specifically comparing them to the rare node from AoM that only crafters with the Far Seas harvest technique aa to even see. That's from 2 expansions ago & gave things like Essence of War used to make some pretty nice charm slot items. This isn't about harvesting now. It's about crafters having a prestige ability that was mostly useless (unless someone wanted those charms from AoM) now being useful again. And being more important to the flow of goods than just someone to push the button. I can't see how it's that hard to understand. I would have more sympathy for the adventurers who don't craft at all if crafters haven't had to buy recipes and raw materials off of adventurers or go adventuring for them themselves so many times in the past. There is precedence for this, it's just usually crafters who have to buy stuff off adventurers instead of the other way around, even furniture items which serve no adventuring purpose at all.
They are not super rare. The method of acquisition was poorly implemented (again I would suggest a required skill of 500 be added to the node to be equitable to both crafters and adventurers who harvest). They are used in the exact same way, in the exact same gear progression, as the rares in previous expansions (I even compared the stats of handcrafed and mastercrafed). The only difference is there are no corresponding new common materials. Rares for the standard expansion gear progression in AoM are harvested from normal plants and are accessible to everyone to put the effort into leveling their harvesting skills.
I think I have to side with the adventurers on this one. Note that all of my characters are crafters and would be able to harvest the node by the time they get out the KA areas, but harvesting has always been a skill open to both adventurers and crafters. Adventurers have also been able to get rares out of the nodes they have harvested, so to make this one node crafter only isn't consistent since harvesting isn't crafter only. I do agree that a solution was needed for the problems concerning this node, but making it crafter only seems wrong. Maybe a better idea would have been make it visible only to those who have completed the evil Qho's harvesting questlines. It would have the same effect of discouraging bots, but would keep it available to *all* harvesters who have put in some effort to become highly skilled and experienced.
I know what you're comparing them to, in your wishful thinking. I am pointing out that they are not the same. That you don't want it to be about harvesting, and are advocating for shafting adventurers, doesn't make it any less about adventurers being denied some ability to gear themselves up. I do see how you fail to understand how this is an issue. You feel that you're entitled to 'put the shoe on the other foot' because poor decisions have been made in regards to crafting in the past. You feel entirely justified in saying - Well it's your turn now! - instead of speaking up when poor decisions are being made for other segments of the community. That you're not satisfied for crafters to have exclusive claim to one free rare per day, that you have to also monopolize the nodes themselves as well, clearly illustrates your lack of sympathy. All a crafter does to 'provide a flow of goods' is push a few buttons. At this point, the button pushing is barely required. Bad precedent does not justify advocating more bad decisions.
That is how this game works. There are swings back and forth in all aspects of the game. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's not the correct decision. The amount and size of the quests crafters have to undertake for this expansion on top of the adventurer side just to get an epic makes this one pretty darn fair to me. This isn't about harvesting its about give and take. There is nothing anywhere that would prevent adventurers from being able to obtain the rares or the items that come from them. Adventurers SLR and crafter sell their services/harvests. Often times these are just slapped on the broker for someone else to cough up some plat for anyhow. I see this as squashing the broker game. This needed to be addressed back in ToV. If there is truly that much of an uprising over paying crafters for their goods than I believe you are looking at it from the wrong angle.
