Destiny of Velious Mystic

Discussion in 'Mystic' started by ARCHIVED-Banditman, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. ARCHIVED-quakeroatmeal4 Guest

    putting points in the left side of the rez line is FAR greater than any of the points in cures (except Cure Curse which trumps everything). As for the endline, you might as well choose one. Even if you're not capped on AA you still need 3 trees worth of points to gain access to the mystic SF tree.
  2. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    Gahnand@Unrest wrote:
  3. ARCHIVED-quakeroatmeal4 Guest

    I will agree that the math on that is different than what I thought, but it wouldn't matter if it was 1/10 the amount (in its current state). Wards are considerably advantageous over hots and reactives, and I have yet to come into any circumstance in any expansion where there just wasn't enough ward to do the trick. On the other hand, I believe that the formula makes sense. If they intended to cut the base crit in half, then I can see how it was intended that all crit mod should be halved. In this case, I agree that some verbiage needs to change. Overall, I think you are too extremist about the issue. You're a leader among mystics, and people will follow your lead. Raising h*ll over something that is most certainly not stopping the game (or proper progression not sure what you meant by that) is unwarranted negativity IMO.
  4. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    I'm not sure I'm extreme enough about the issue.
    Here's the problem.
    At a very basic level, the formula for a Ward value is this: [(base x potency) + abil mod] x crit bonus.
    I know there is a lot more going on, but that serves to illustrate the point. Crit Bonus is the last multiplier, after everything else has been considered. For a Ward, this means that every other bonus we get . . . Potency, Ability Mod, whatever, those values are *also* getting only half their potential value.
    I agree, right now, today, Mystics (and Defilers) are just fine. Unfortunately, it's not today I'm worried about. What will we be seeing in 12 months? Crit Bonus / Potency of 300+? I dunno, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    Look at the difference you'd see then.
    On a base of 1000, with 300 CB / Potency, a Cleric would see a crit of 16,000. A Shaman would see 10,000. Again, there's a lot more going on there that needs to be considered, and I certainly don't want to see Mystics (or Defilers) get whacked because they are overpowered.
    However, the Ward casters need a sustainable, reasonable growth path. Right now, they just don't have it. It's exactly the same problem that Crusaders have right now with their heals not crit'ing. It's exactly the same problem Summoners had when they introduced pet effects. When you make an exception to the mechanics, you are forced to constantly juggle that exception until it becomes untenable to maintain, and you have to do some sort of major rebalance to fix it.
    Right now, Wards are an exception to the mechanics, and the dialog about how to fix it needs to start now, not after it becomes grossly broken.
  5. ARCHIVED-quakeroatmeal4 Guest

    it doesn't matter what the amount is, it's still a percentage and therefore scales indefinitely. All these problems you are listing aren't really problems. They are just differences in how you think the game should work versus what the devs think, and I believe in the game having at least some challenge. And yes, I do say extremist because you guys literally scream bloody murder and sometimes even insult devs and managers with implications of incompetence or lack of interest in meeting your "needs" (although to me, they just sound like demands).
  6. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    Generalizations do not suit. Saying "you guys" is a rabid generalization that doesn't even begin to address a legitimate concern about a problem that will only grow over time.
    It is a long standing flaw with SOE. They note a problem, but instead of addressing that problem at it's core, they instead make exceptions to the rule. This brings them nothing but pain in the long run. Their history of this is long and checkered, and yet they continue to do it.
    Oh, look, that was a generalization. Let me cite some specific examples.
    Summoners knew, a long time ago, that pets needed to share stats. SOE chose instead to work outside of the mechanics of the game, adding pet effects. It worked for a while, but in the end created more issues than it solved, and was eventually backed out and pets were moved into the greater flow of mechanics within the game.
    Consider the old Ward problem, Wards did not take mitigation into account. Once again, something outside the general flow of mechanics became an issue - a huge one. No one saw it as a problem, but Mystique and I saw it and went to bat for the changes that brought Wards back into the mainstream of game mechanics.
    Consider the current situation with Crusaders. They felt Crusaders were healing too much. Well, ok, fine, perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. It was a lot more apparent in PvP than it was in PvE, but whatever. Instead of adjusting the core values, they simply removed crit from them entirely. Anyone can tell you that isn't going to be a sustainable solution in the long term.
    Consider Brawlers. Bards. The list goes on and on and on and on.
    Mark my words, this is the same thing. Wards need to benefit from the full value of Crit Bonus. If that means that the core values need to be adjusted, great, let's get it done.
  7. ARCHIVED-quakeroatmeal4 Guest

    if what you're saying is true, then it appears you have been wrong for several years since this mechanic has been this way since before the internet AND people have been complaining about it just as long.
  8. ARCHIVED-Hene Guest

    Gahnand@Unrest wrote:
    Btw, the base value on wards was scaled long ago to adjust for the difference in ward efficiency versus other heals. This scaling affected the base, which all other ward increasing stats in turn are affected by.

    So, this base scaling, in turn, affects the percentage of all other modifiers we get (to a degree, and I say this to take into acount abil mod). But to illustrate this point, a long time ago I posted this:

    Hene wrote:
    So the base value of our ST ward is significantly lower than for example a warden's ST HoT, making the warden's HoT do 67% more than a shaman's ST ward to account for efficiency. After crit is added in, with no crit bonus, the warden's HoT does ~89% more, still to account for efficiency.
    Finally, with 100% CB, this is "still a percentage and therefore scales indefinitely," (like you said) but the problem is, it does not scale linearly and the 50% of CB is a percentage of the already applied base percentage.... The 100% CB increases the gap even more by making warden ST HoT now do 132% more, and this gap keeps growing as CB climbs
  9. ARCHIVED-quakeroatmeal4 Guest

    My point still stands. We have PLENTY of healing power many times over to do everything we want to in this game. Take the other classes out of the picture, and you have no argument. I'm sorry you don't think it's fair, but seriously, this complaint has no purpose.
  10. ARCHIVED-Felshades Guest

    Gahnand@Unrest wrote:
    "AB"?
    Sorry, new around here. >.>
  11. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    Ancestral Balm. It's our "special" cure that bestows immunity.
    So, let's say you are rooted. If you cure it with AB, you are then immune to root for 10 seconds. If someone roots you again during that time, you will get the detrimental, but you will not be rooted. You can then cure it again to "refresh" your 10 second immunity. Basically, you can be infinitely immune if you are getting chain rooted and you continually use AB to cure it.
    This applies to any control effect - daze, stun, mez, etc.
    So, what Gahnand is saying here is that you lead off with Immunities, which makes you completely immune to all control effects. When Immunities is about to run out, you cure yourself with AB, which then gives you another 10 seconds of control immunity to whatever it just cured. Ad nauseaum.
  12. ARCHIVED-Felshades Guest

    Banditman wrote:
    Alright that just sounds OP.
    I like it.
    I have the spell just didn't put 2 and 2 together. Thanks for clearing that up. :)
  13. ARCHIVED-Banditman Guest

    It's not nearly as OP as it sounds. Remember, AB has to actually cure a specific effect to trigger the immunity to that effect. So, curing a root doesn't make you immune to stun for instance.
  14. ARCHIVED-quakeroatmeal4 Guest

    it's not OP, but it's an amazing ability and should be used every time it's up over ST cure which is basically 99% of the time unless you still spam click cures which unless you are in TSO progression, you're doing it wrong.
  15. ARCHIVED-Yongqi Guest