These changes are only in DoF Beta not the test server yet. I have waited patiently and I'm a very patient man. I have waited almost a year for them to stop removing little fun things like the petrified eyes they made them require a bone to use but didn't fix the illusion dropping when zoning. It seems SOE is quick to jump on anything that helps or makes the players game fun but they are very slow fixing things detrimental to the player. Have you noticed they do things like make the mobs HP greater while increasing mob damage at the same time they nerf the players mitigation? You need to do 1 change at a time you cannot balance when you change so many variables at once. They are doing the same thing in DoF beta player mitigation down, epic damage up are 2 other notes from yesterdays beta notes I didn't post. As well as "The mitigation provided by accessories (ear, neck, ring, wrist, belt) has been reduced by 50%." Message Edited by Tagga on 08-10-2005 02:16 PM
They had stated the changes where not complete, which logically means that they already had additional changes planned out, complaining about the state of affairs when there were clearly a set of planned changes yet to take place is pointless, and can cause panic when people are unaware of the full facts.
The fact that changes are not ended change nothign to what I said. If they try new changes and none say. X changes seems ok while Y change seems bad. They won't change anything. And wll if your always waiting about the full fact to do something in your life. You wont ever accomplish anything. Message Edited by yzyh on 08-10-2005 01:04 PM
Yes indeed, accomplish things like declaring that you've quit the game: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=13186 Or accomplishing your goal in finding out just how much Rl cash you can get for your beloved character: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=13648 Message Edited by Pathin Merrithay on 08-10-2005 04:21 PM
If you base your analysis of 'any' system or situation on incomplete data then anything you deduce or intuit is invalid and meaningless. If you go through life acting on incomplete information and producing analyis without all the data you will never produce anything meaningful. Anyone who has ever had a job that involves reporting on gathered information knows that they need all the facts to produce an accurate report and if all the facts are not available will state that any analysis done is potentially incorrect due to a lack of information.
First: Blackweb is not a 50 pally dont ask him for stats on weapons. And hosestly he needs to sit down shut up and stop acting like a idiot. Good intent but bad information, breath more boy. Sec: Lets talk about changes as they come please and let the DPS "nerf" go for a while please. I am more interested if new taunts have been added yet for us lvl 50's thanx: be good people Kalen Law where are you!!!!! Message Edited by Moonreft on 08-10-2005 02:57 PM
Here are the forum rules of conduct posted by Moorgard: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=rules&message.id=1 They specifically state and I quote: "In general, you may post any material, written in a courteous and mature manner, providing that it is on-topic for the forum to which you are posting. This includes material that disagrees with the way that we, the developers, operate the game. We will not interfere with the communication of thoughts and ideas as long as the presentation is appropriate for all those capable of reading the forum. You may not, however, post any material that: Attacks or insults others on the board. Feel free to debate the idea, but do not turn your disagreement into an attack upon the poster. Engages in name-calling, harassment, or threats. See above. " This individual makes the following statement: "And hosestly he needs to sit down shut up and stop acting like a idiot. Good intent but bad information, breath more boy." In this statment he calls me an "idiot" and "boy". "Boy" has in the past been used in a racist manner. I hope that it is not meant that way here. Clearly this individual has turned this disagreement into "an attack upon the poster" and has engaged in "name-calling". According to the forum rules posted by Moorgard (see link above) this is in clear violation of the forum Rules of Conduct. I do have a level 47, nearly 48 Paladin alt. He will be 50 within the next week or so. Message Edited by BlackWeb on 08-11-2005 06:32 AM
I think this is one of the most nonsensical posts I have seen in ANY of the threads on the Paladin changes. Not only do Level 50 paladins constitute a very small percentage of all players that play paladin, but level 50 paladins are designed to only use 20% or so of all Paladin skills (The 5th tier set of skills). All level 50 paladins were, at one time, level 5 fighters, level 15 crusaders, and level 25, 35, and 45 Paladins. It is VERY important that ALL skills at ALL levels are tested in the combat balance to determine whether there are any problems with them. Additionally, consider this: (1) How can a level 50 paladin effectively test level 30 Paladin skills (that are grey and trivial to him) against level appropriate mobs that are GREY to a level 50 paladin (instead of against mobs of the level the skills were intended to be used against), and against mobs that are not grey to the a level 50 paladin (against which the lower level skills were never intended to be used)? (answer: he can't) Because every Paladin will eventually have to play through it, I think that mid-range game testing is MUCH more important than high-end game testing. If the mid-range is broken, no Paladin will ever play through it to become level 50. (2) The developers are balancing Paladin DPS and skills to be EQUAL at ALL levels. They are not designing paladin DPS to bell curve (low on the front and back ends, large in the middle), to increase (low at 10, high at 50), or to decrease (high at 10, low at 50). Consequently, BlackWeb's observations are VERY relevant, as they show the DPS level that devs are currently imposing on Paladins (extrapolated out, at ALL levels). In case you missed it, all classes in the game are being balanced to solo-kill an EVEN-CON mob. That being the case, a level 40 paladin fighting a level 40 mob is just as effective at testing the changes as a level 50 Paladin is at fighting a level 50 mob. You have NO justification for telling ANY player that they cannot test and post about the changes just because they are not playing a level 50 toon. What is happening here is that the most active players in the game, the ones who generally take time to post on the boards, have generally already achieved level 50, are refusing to talk about the merits and content that had been posted, and are instead engaging in a level "pissing contest" to make themselves feel better. I am happy for you that you have a level 50 character! It doesn't matter here, as we are talking about whether Paladin as a class (which includes 50 levels, not one) is broken. Using your logic, I have 2 level 30+ characters , 2 level 25 characters, and one level 20 character, 4 of which are level 30+ in tradeskilling. In total, that is 250+ levels. I outrank you on "Uber Dood" scale, so I get to tell you that you can't post here anymore. (silly, isn't it) Message Edited by Eueadan on 08-11-2005 09:50 AM
Thank you for your posts. I have combined the information in this thread into the following thread: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=13573 Please respond to this thread there. I am requesting that the moderator lock this thread in order to reduce the number of active threads started by me (this also makes it easier for me to respond ). Message Edited by BlackWeb on 08-11-2005 07:48 AM
/sigh Dont take everything so subjective and personal Blackweb. My commit is what one brother says to another when he sees him acting out of hand. All I wanted was to get on topic with somthing more then opinions. People can have opinions based on nothing and its a sad day when we must create 7-10 posts on the same subject and have no hard numbers or facts. Us raiding pallys come here for info and when we open 7+ threads that end in the same reinvent the wheel BS on DPS it becomes more then a little disheartening. Do us a favor and stop posting BlackWeb lad, by today we will have the hard numbers on skills. And none of it is thanks to you.
I am not interested in your advice and I am no lad. If you want hard numbers on skills, click the link above. I have condensed all of my posts into that one. Please respond there. I must warn you that post is focused on the average, solo, small group player, not the uber RAID Paladin. There is a post in this forum focus on Paladin RAIDing and the changes by Cerdian (spelling?). I am not bumping this thread. I would prefer to respond in the thread above. I hope that the moderator locks this thread. Message Edited by BlackWeb on 08-11-2005 11:48 AM
The point of this poem is to remind us that you have to see the whole picture before you can speak with any level of authority on what it is you're seeing. You can't concentrate on just this spell vs. that spell, or just this mitigation change vs. that mitigation change. You need a more comprehensive view to truly determine what's going on here. Anyone of us suggesting that we understand elephants just because we've seen a small picture of a tusk, isn't someone that understands an elephant at all. There's a lot of changes - LOTS - in this combat revamp. Speaking with anything even approaching a level of authority of confidence on what this change will mean for entire segments of players based on small samples of information sniped from here or there is simply premature and inaccurate. Take the time to see the entire elephant, and understand it for what it is. Message Edited by Kendricke on 08-11-2005 12:18 PM
Faarwolf clearly states: "Deliberately posting nonsense is considered forum griefing and may result in disciplinary action even if the post itself was not vulgar or a flame." The previous post in my opinion is nonsense. I think we all know what an elephant looks like and this is the EQ2 Paladin forum, not the poetry forum. It has little to do with the origonal topic of the thread.
Well you are entitled to your opinion, but that made perfect sense and was an example of a commonly used method for communicating meaning, that of the analogy. It was demonstrating that your initial posts, those which contained a negative and flawed analysis of the incomplete combat changes and those comparing single combat arts to their live equivalant, were partially right and also at the same time completely wrong because you were not looking at the entire picture and thus getting a flawed and incomplete view of the entire combat change.
It's a use of parable to compare the concept of trying to analyze the entire combat revamp, or even just the paladin revamp, from just comparing screenshots of spells to one other. There's far more going on here, such as an overall reduction in DPS across the board for fighters, the addition of offensive (and defensive) stances, new spell lines that currently do not even exist, the removal of level dependancies for spells and arts, tweaking of content itself to give more consistent fights against even or lower con targets, removal of gear "grey outs", revamping of the hate/aggro system, reduction in health or power across the board for player character, reduction in regeneration of health or power across the board for player characters, and so on... You can't just look at the elephant's trunk and make a determination that we're all looking at a snake. There's far too much in this revamp to just spend a few hours on one character testing to make a snap judgement. In short, I'm advocating a larger, broader view be adopted by the leaders of this forum. I'm advocating a more practical, comprehensive attitude toward the revamp regarding paladins.
A) i think there was a point to the poem. just like there was a point to the other nonsense you complained about. B) it's probably best to let Faar make her own decision as to what should (or shouldn't) be here. if you find something you feel shouldn't be, click on the little report link. C) poems with morals are probaly not "nonsense" by any reasonable definition.
Bah. /rude Blackweb. :smileyvery-happy: I respect the fact that you are a tenacious person and that you obviously mean well, I really do...as well as your willingness to try things out on Test (even though your methodology leaves something to be desired). But I cannot abide your melodramatic sense of self-importance and righteousness. It's grating as heck. Leave the forum modding to the mods, and if you disagree with something, report it to them. Leave your pompous airs behind when you post here. There. Report that.
