OK, kids, gather around, time to learn the reason why Anashti'Sul gives crazy uncle Anaogi migraines. You know who brought undeath to Norrath and created vampires? Not so fast. The existing lore regarding one Mayong Mistmoore seems to indicate origins within the Plane of Hate, as something called Ydal--well before the era when Anashti should even have been active. It's incomplete--scraps turned up during TSO--but the implication is that Innoruuk had a hand in affairs, the details being still unclear. This is actually somewhat consistent with original EQ lore. But if Anashti'Sul's quest to vanquish death is supposed to be what brought the scourge of undeath in EQ2...well, we have a problem. One that's never really been addressed in EQ2. This particular lore snarl has been giving me migraines for years now. Having Sulites turn up in Arcannase Spire (as well as a certain missing idol) just adds new wrinkles. I've been hoping something would be done to set this mess straight, but after all this time I've about lost hope. Unless I've missed something, of course (I have been preoccupied in RL for a while, and the loss of the lore subforum and dormancy of the lore chat channel does not help.)
here's a way to make it work: Anashti is trying to 'cure' death. Inny convinces her to let him use the Ewer to 'test' it, and creates Vampires in PoH, the Y'dal. Anashti sees this as a success, and hands the ewer to her followers, which, unfortunately, creates mummies and other forms of undead, that are clearly NOT living. This raises the ire of the rest of the Pantheon, that punish Anashti, while Inny quitely borders off the portion of his plane called Mystmyr, and lets his vamps kill each other down to just Mayong, who then just put on Norrath to look like he was just another effect of the Ewer on Norrath and thus keep himself 'innocent' of tinkering with the Ewer.
U think the goddess of healing and life would use something from the god of hate ? Maybe she created undeath but not vampires. Zombies and squeletons and vampires are seen as a different kind of undeath ?
Anashti made the Ewer, but it was stated that Inny can convinced her to let him utilize it, and putting a drop of blood into it created Vampires. Anashti might have seen that as a proof of concept, before handing it off to the mortals. Health and Hate might work together, or her 'hate' of undeath might have prompted her to talk to inny by way or making the Ewer stronger via him 'blessing' it through hate which she might have utilized from her hate of death.
That's actually pretty much what I've suspected--Inny tainted the Ewer and Anashti took the fall--but the timeline is still messed up. But then, everything surrounding Mayong is kind of sketchy at best on a good day, so who knows.
*shrugs* I tend to follow old EQ1 beta lore that hints that Mayong was a noble of the Teir'dal Empire (before he became a soulless bloodsucking monster... but he could be worse... he could be a lawyer from Qeynos!) which was defeated by the rebels while the dwarves were fighting the ogres (and made a deal with the orc slaves).
...and actually it occurs to me...Mayong saw the events regarding the Tenets of Hate coming when we let Tserrina go free way back when, didn't he? Methinks we're going to be hearing from him again soon...
Part of it comes from the inclusion of Anashti herself--I heard tell at one point grafting that lore into Desert of Flames (yes, this mess is THAT old) was something of a last-minute decision, which is what led to the entire tangle to begin with. I could just throw up my hands and say "See Zebuxxoruuk, this is your fault, all to clean up your mess we get wibbly wobbly timey wimey problems", but that's not entirely in character for me at this stage...
Yeah, had a chat with a person on AB who was very big on lore and knew some of the EQ lore people and spoken with them. He said that there was evidence about a Teir'dal empire but was removed or brushed aside, during the Beta and early game. *shrugs* just allows a different spin on things, after all, the winners write the history books... I'm just following the history written by the losers! Looking at our Queen and all She has "done", the Teir'dal are some of the biggest losers in or under Norrath.
Some questions that need to be answered. How did Ashanti's followers know about the shard? What happen to the missing relic? The Withered lands, Is it’s history tied to a the dead god? (Pingyuan Diqu) The Goddess Tunare did she replace Pingyuan Diqu? When did these gods Die.. Did they die to Roehn Theer? In what age: The age of scale: The elder age : The age of monuments: Or did they fall victim to something else…
Withered Lands were the result of Dragon magic, in defense against the giants (who were pawns of Rallos Zek). Tunare did take over Pingyuan Diqu's portfolio, though the details have never really be covered. The four in question are known to have been executed by Roehn Theer. The names date back to his raid in Sentinel's Fate. The missing relic is...an odd point that doesn't match up with the rest. I speculate it may actually have been Anashti's--perhaps even the Ewer?--because it fits with the pattern. Anashti "survived" by chance; Theer was himself betrayed and banished shortly afterwards, and the two allied themselves for survival and revenge, leading up to the events surrounding the Void invasion.
and why did they god died ? why were they executed ? Rohenn theer was doing whatever he wanted or was he sort of an executionneer and did what was asked ? I guess there's no real reason why ?
They were 'executed' in a bid to force Theer into the Void. The Gods disliked that Rohen kept Balance by basically executing deities that got too powerful on either side. so they ganged up on him, those 4 sacrificed themselves to give the others the opening to toss him into the Void. this is also why those 4 have relics in the Arcane'see Tower, and why their power binds and weakens Theer via those 4 runes in his fight. Xul was killed before then, but Zou Kunnen kept relics of him as well, which the Sulites destroyed before being killed themselves. the gods had more free reign then, but they turned on Anashti when she was responsible for unleashing undeath on the mortals, sending her into the Void as well, though during this, Anashti supposedly sent Exonus and Aeteok to Norrath as well, which become known as the Qeynos Claymore and Soulfire, respectively. Rather then Theer making all the decrees, the Pantheon had developed into a Council where the 4 Elemental Gods basically had the primary say. Rohen Theer's Purpose was to maintain Balance. but he did it with a tyrannical ruthlessness. if you got 2 steps above everyone else? threat of execution. if you tried something underhanded to give your followers a leg up? threat of execution. Anything that any deity did that upset the scales in anyway was met with threat of death...which is why they basically said 'screw this' and some were willing to sacrifice themselves to get him out of the picture. Though as the the five in the Tower. I think Pingyaun Diq was succeeded by Tunare, Zou Kunnen by Druzzil, Xul'Varien by Bertox. Paxio I think was followed by Thoxule Paels, and Anquil was the predessor of Sol Ro. the last two I think work becuase Passion = Lust and Sol Ro is known for his destructive nature linked to Flame more then anything (Ro desert, anyone?) and Anquil's elemental projections and artifact all involve flame.
Thanks Rain, I suspected I had some of those details scrambled, the old noggin doesn't work quite as well as once it did...
The newer gods don't have to be exact replicas of the dead gods. The main thing is there is an empty void for a new god to fill or for another god to absorb a portion of the other god's portfolio of powers. Take the Triumberant of War, they absorbed the portfolio of Rallos Zek and split it among the three of them which prevented Rallos from reforming. In a similar fashion Erollisi took on the portfolio of Love and Hunters because there was no god with a claim over Love. From what I gather as a time line the major events here happened about in this order: Rohen Theer has a confrontation with the gods. Takes out several of them who took measures to make sure they "survived" the conflict. Theer ends up banished to the Void. Gulfey, Chaos Stone and the Spire created. Anashti Sul creates undeath. Anashti Sul sends agents to enter the tower and wipe out the last traces of her ancient enemy. Figure this had to happen after creating undeath because one of her followers ends up being undead and trapped in the tower. Also why create undeath when the god of disease has already been defeated? Anashti Sul banished to the Void. Inny gains the Ewer of Sul'Dal. Creates Y'dal in the Plane of Hate(?). Possibly this could of happened earlier, but I find it likely that Inny wouldn't gain custody of it before Anashti was put down. Sometime after Rohen Theer is banished: Tunare and most of the other gods we're familiar with are part of the pathenon we're familiar with. Only Bertoxulous, Rodcet and the Marr Twins aren't part of the pathenon at this point. Well, at least out of the pre-time split deities. Veeshan claims Norrath, bunch of other gods get involved. Somehow Mayong claims to be on Norrath for this event. Prior to this event, none of the gods were aware of Norrath. There is no reason for the Ewer, or the Chaos stone to be on Norrath. How they got to Norrath is a huge mystery. Lesser races created. Proper Norrathian history begins.
The problem when we're dealing with the Gods is that the only information we have for Norrath is Veeshaan finds it, marks it has hers, deposits her brood and leaves. though with the new information about Theer and the other Gods like Pingyuan, is that this occurs before Veeshaan marks Norrath. because we know that Zou Kunnen is a predessor of Druzzil. even Druzzil says as much when we 'break' the spell that binds the Glaufaye. So the Events of Theer being placed in the Void occur well before the current pantheon, had to occur on norrath, since the Glaufaye and Spire are here. I would probably put the ideas as somethign along these lines: Rohen Theer has his issues with the Gods. at least some of said gods are on a 'pre-age of scale' norrath. this would be the 4 old gods, possible Xul'varien, and Anashti. Zou Kunnen makes the Spire, puts the artifacts in it/the Chaos Gem, and timelocks the Glaufaye, before they banish Theer to the Void. Anashti sends followers to the Tower to get rid of the remnants of Xul'Varien, they all die, one of their spirits gets stuck there (possible due to the effects of There 'erasing' the other 4. she doesn't claim undeath, only that her spirit was stuck there using it as a vessel) Anashti wants to get rid of Death itself since as far as she knows she'd 'killed' Disease, creates the Ewer, Inny convinces her to let him use it ( I beleive the Y'dal lore we got say that Inny barter or asked to use it) and creates Vampires with it. (immortal beings at least as far as time is concerned) who start warring with each other until only Mayong is left. Mayong comes to Norrath Veeshan marks Norrath, starting the Age of Scale, the other gods come and plant thier own creations. Anashti sees the Vampire as a proof of concept. the only thing that kills them is physical assault. no disease, nor age, can do the job, and they can come back from 'death' even then at least in Mayong's case. she hands the Ewer to the God-King, and the result is Undeath as we know it. Anashti is banished to the Void by the other gods, Aket Ahken is buried and lost to time along with the diety they worshipped. Ages on Norrath continue until the start of Eq1 where we players get involved, PoTime events occur, and the tearing of the timelines shifts the effects of Theer's/the pantheon's actions just enough that we'll eventually rediscover places like Aket Ahken, and Anashti Sul, Thalumbra, the Spire and the Glaufaye even though the Void was supposed to erase those memories from the timeline. (at least those that can be effected by such things, unlike the Glaufaye)
Several bits don't make sense. First, when Veeshan plants the First Brood the only creatures on Norrath are the Dragons, Behemoths, and Mayong Mistmoor. There is no sign that any other races exist on Norrath. If there is nobody to worship the old gods, why do they have a presence here? If Anashti'sul has followers on Norrath how did the race get wiped out without the main deities of the current pantheon not being aware of Norrath? If the Spire is originally placed on Norrath, how did Anashti get followers to the tower to attack it? Also Anashti'sul was not purged from mortal memory. She didn't get the Theer treatment. The only reason we don't know about her is probably because she was already banished to the Void by the time Norrath was discovered. Her worship was probably spread to Norrath via the Shadowmen agents under her control and her name was kept out of it to lessen the chance of the Pantheon catching on and destroying her worshipers. And if Anashti'sul was around to observe the Y'dal she'd have a clue that they were a defective product. They are not immortal. Mayong destroyed the race down to himself. Also if you go with these assumptions, it means Inny knew all about Norrath before the rest of the major gods of the current pantheon. He'd have to reason to be upset at the rest of the pantheon and no reason to be upset at Tunare other than the Elves look a bit like the Y'dal. One more thing to consider, the current Pantheon is still linked to the creation of everything by the Nameless. While Gods of Influence have come and gone, the Elemental Deities have...probably not been replaced. Considering they were created directly by the Nameless along with Rohen Theer its very difficult to imagine the universe operating without them.
as we've seen, the void isn't really empty .. it's quite crowded even yeah there are stuff not logical with anash'ti and the old gods. it means they were present before norrath and so were on another planet, world ? the tower arcanna'se may have been created somewhere outside of norrath ? there is ony a portal in Thalumbra, not the tower itself. for anashti it's trickier, she was a goddess in Norrath ... and then it means just she was godess of health before rodcet .. but she was part of the pantheon who created Norrath ? The sullites seem to be humans, so they were worshipping anash'ti sul during the early days of norrath and normally they destroyed the remnants of the god of desease after Veeshan clawed Norrath. But If Mayong is older than Norrath then yeah it starts to be strange. otherwise ... what are the sullites ? maybe creatures from her plane and if she was bannished before veeshan's claws, how did she manage do give the ewer to the god king ? maybe there are just stuff to change from the pantheon in EQ1. since EQ2 is a parallel universe, things may be different or just since old gods got lost and forgotten the history of creation just forgot they were there at the creation of the world and that the gods who replaced them took their titles but also their deeds
