COPAA LAWS

Discussion in 'Norrathian Homeshow' started by Niboota, Dec 17, 2019.

  1. Febrith Well-Known Member

    I haven't - on the basis that I have less than 1000 subscribers so they're prolly not bothered about small fry like me anyway lol.
  2. Lera Well-Known Member

    The response will be 'not our problem'. It's not YouTube's categories, it's COPPA's, and the FTC's, for taking a law written 20 years ago and applying it to today's Internet. Feldon explained it well: the two options are a) set the video for kids and don't collect any personal information, or b) set it for adults, collect personal information, and risk fines if the FTC decides your video is for kids under 13.

    The lack of a third option like you suggest, and the effect this is having on perfectly innocent videos suggests that there's a big free speech issue here. But that's going to take a lot of money and a very long legal fight, probably not something most want to get involved in. But it might ultimately be the way all this gets resolved.
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  3. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Oy... X-P

    I will say that I, for one, don't remember the 87,000 tons of buffer-killing ads and attempted (but still buffer-killing) ads before Google bought out YouTube...was the kids' information selling before or after that (possibly after, come to think; after paying such a ginormous fine [for good reason, amen], they probably needed someone to bail them out)?

    Sounds like: kill comments, kill ads (PLEASE; could you also do that for the rest of us? PLEASE? :mad:) for Kids, and use curse words if you've marked Adult. :-/

    Uwk
    who'll join Da Hubster on Netflix, thanks, and deal with YouTube just for short vids of ours here and music videos (I like to see them claim "Horse Outside" is for kids [it's really, really, really not, but it's hilarious, imho, that the equivalent of PBS in Ireland is behind it, apparently]... ;->)
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  4. Lera Well-Known Member

    This particular law allows you to advertise as much as you want to kids under 13. You're just not allowed to collect personal information. And that's what makes this kind of silly. The video uploader might not be allowed to know that the child watching this video watched 3 Frozen songs, 2 My Little Pony, and 2 Barbie videos yesterday, but knows that this video's intended audience is 6- to 8-year-old girls, and can select advertising accordingly. I'm not really sure untargeted advertising is really that much better.

    And maybe it's just me, but I'm not all that concerned with companies tracking what I view in order to sell me stuff. Ad blockers exist for a reason, and if I have to view ads, at least make it something I might actually be interested in. I suppose once the data's out there, it could be used for other purposes, and there can be issues if employers or the government decide you bought one too many books of the wrong political opinion from Amazon, but young children aren't going to be watching anything controversial. COPPA seems like one more well-intentioned law that doesn't really solve anything and causes a whole bunch of extra problems. But I highly doubt most members of Congress in 1998, when COPPA was passed, even knew much about the Internet.Heck, most people not in Congress didn't know much about the Internet back then. It was that AOL thing, right?

    The solution probably needs to be on the sign-up end. YouTube needs to require everyone to either verify that they're at least 13, or verify parental permission for those under 13. Maybe require a credit card to create an account for a child. Of course, lots of people don't have credit cards, or want to use them online.
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  5. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    You mean... >gasp< ...someone taking -- responsibility for their Internet time?? And for their KIDS' Internet time?? :eek:

    What a concept! ;)

    Uwk
    who agrees; yeah, a lot of laws can be silly, but it's like pulling dragon's teeth (with the dragon awake, grumpy, and not aware it had any dental issues) to get them removed, or even changed a teensy bit :-/
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  6. Mercychalice Well-Known Member


    standing by and saying nothing assumes compliance. who else but yourself could adequately explain the issues, and Febrith, you alone, are but one small fry. But there are lots of small fries out there, that together, could make a whole box of fries with a very similar issue. this will not stop at just everquest videos, or at youtube. it will extend beyond to other video platforms as well, until someone says enough and actually means it. there needs to be options. shame I don't know how or where to start a petition or how to define youtube categories well enough to describe the problem. :(
  7. Febrith Well-Known Member

    Oh I have no doubt it will happen, Youtube will no doubt try it on with someone who has the means to argue with them and a lot of creators like me will be very interested in the outcome. The whole platform is a bit of a mess right now, what with false copyright claims going through the roof and impacting people's livings - not me, I just do it for fun, but some of the big gaming channels have fallen prey to this kind of behaviour. It's a real shame there's no viable alternatives out there right now - but there might be soon (come on Amazon, sort your life out)
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  8. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Amen! :)

    And even with DeviantArt, in order to see them in their "native land," so to speak (I haven't actually tried posting videos here, but my screenshots still work without any other additional outlay of funds or extra requirements on others' parts, so...), you have to be a member, even if it's only a free account. :-/

    Uwk
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  9. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    To post images to forums I use imgur, but I don't know if they handle videos or not.
  10. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    Well, I was just on youtube watching videos. I happen to like cartoons. In fact I have liked cartoons before the Internet existed. I tried to like a Steven Universe segment.

    I was blocked as I wasn't logged in under youtube for kids. They gave a big list of nonsense on why it violated what.

    Their claim made no sense as no one can tell who likes a video on youtube. SI I coudn't be influencing anyone.

    So, good luck folks who post videos to youtube. The service there has gone bonkers.
  11. Semperfifofum Well-Known Member

    Well the people to push back on this are the game companies, not us. Twitch and Youtube drive a lot of interest in games, even old ones like this. Holly could make the point that video games are intended for children over 13 and that their target market is teen boys (though it's broader than that, that's he "traditional" market). The TOS clearly states that children using this game do so only with parent's supervision and consent. Therefore the majority of players are adults and it's absurd to imagine that the videos would be intended for children.

    That's my line and I'm sticking to it! :D
  12. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    I looked and tried to like 5 more Steven Universe videos, and it allowed that.

    But this looks like a trend youtube is going towards.
  13. Wulfgyr Well-Known Member

    But that will never happen, because game companies have lawyers and most "normal" folks like us don't. Easier to push it off on consumers than actually spend resources (reducing profits) on a fix.

    It's the same reason data breaches at retail places keep happening. It's not because the criminals are that good or have gotten smarter/better - it's because it's cheaper for companies to pay a fine than it is to put a comprehensive fix in. Remember the Target breach (the first big one)? That ended up costing them something like $150-200 million (ballpark, don't remember the exact number)... but their revenues for that year were over $18 BILLION. While there might have been some policy changes and short term expenditures so their marketing team could point and say "see, we DID something," it's actually cheaper for many organizations to have insurance and a "war chest" available for court settlements, than it is to spend $$ on keeping your info secure.

    After all... "everyone" posts on FaceBook, Insta-chat & Snap-grams, Twitter, TikTok, Discord, YouTube, etc. anyways, so they've already given their information out!

    Remember - social media makes their profits from selling information about you to advertisers. "Connecting" you with other people is simply the vehicle they use to get that information.
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  14. Lera Well-Known Member

    If you're getting something for free, it's usually because you're the product.
  15. Dude Well-Known Member

    I know it's a serious issue, but I can't hold this in any longer...

    I don't know much about the COPAA laws, but if they link up with the cabana laws, there will definitely be music and passion!
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  16. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    Are you channeling Xavier Cougat ? Ricky Ricardo ? Miles Standish ? Tom Corbett, Space Cadet ?

    Tune again next time radio show fans !

    ( Well, the last one was a kids' tv show. Very cheap. They didn't have sets... to change to another deck on their spaceships they walked through curtains. Yup, no air tight curtains on their space ships ! And Miles is from US colonial days. )

    Egad Ze boing.
  17. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    Nah, there's an old Barry Manilow song, "(At the) Copacabana," probably named for the Copacabana nightclub in New York, judging by the lyrics...

    Truth to tell, I was looking specifically for someone to mention it; if they hadn't, I would have. ;->

    Thanks, Dude! :D

    Uwk
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  18. Dude Well-Known Member

    You're welcome! :)
  19. Geroblue Well-Known Member

    Well, the folks I mentioned were decades before Manilow, and they played music there. But Tom Corbet didn't.
  20. Uwkete-of-Crushbone Well-Known Member

    True, but I think that's what Dude was thinking of. ;->

    Uwk
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