Update 12/6: Added safe fall and combat art skill bonuses. Update 12/7: Added taunting slap, quest armor, and revised the section on the Silent Fist Kata. Having a concise list of bugs increases the likelyhood of having them fixed. Please do not use this thread for bellyaching - start a "Bellyaching about Monk class bugs" if you wish. Venting is healthy but it tends to derail threads. Please feel free to make suggestions for non-combat Monk fluff as well Please attempt to provide all of the information possible regarding each bug. If your bug might fall under the category of a design change then please provide a rationale behind the change beyond "chnge this so we suk less plz". Detailed steps on how to reproduce a bug, parsed logs, and other concrete data is ideal. And please remember, your target audience is a developer who does NOT play the class. Without further ado, let's kick this off: * When we become a Monk at level 20, our deflection skill becomes 139/100. As we gain levels, the skill cap raises but as it is still significantly under 139 we gain no further bonus to deflection for a long time. At 23.4, my unbuffed deflection skill is 139/117. It would appear that this should be a boost not only to our deflection _skill_ but also to our _skill_cap_ which is not currently the case. * Several Monk skills have an extremely short range compared to other skills, and some require you to be facing your target while others automatically turn the Monk to face his targer. For instance, please compare the range of Thrust Kick with Swooping Dragon. Thrust Kick has a range of about 10 feet while Swooping Dragon requires you to be standing inside the mob. At 23, the following skills have a range that is very short: Swooping Dragon, Rapid Strikes, Mend. The distance limitation on Mend is particularly problematic, as I primarily use it for emergency healing on the main tank. Because the ideal position is to stand behind the mob, I cannot Mend the tank without running over to him. This significantly reduces the benefit of the Mend skill. * The Mend skill requires that you target yourself to use if you have no target. This makes it difficult to use in an emergency situation. Please change it so that using Mend with no target selected will heal you. Having it automatically target yourself would be an acceptable workaround. * Please enhance the Martial Focus line to allow a 270 or 360 degree arc on parry/block/riposte. Debates on the viability of an avoidance tank vs. a mitigation tank aside, it is very difficult for a Monk to act as a tank for encounters with multiple mobs as one or more will very likely be hitting the Monk from the side or behind where deflection skills do not work. * Martial Focus reports that it is supposed to increase Deflection and Parry, but it does not stack with the Deflection bonus from Brawler's Stance. * It is difficult to tell when a mob is stunned or casting, and consequently hard to evaluate the utility of stun abilities such as Thundering Fists, Shoulder Charge, and Power Strike. It would be very useful to have icons for Stunned, Casting, Mezzed, etc appear in the target box over the mob's head, similar to how the ^ and ^^ icons appear. * When multiple Monks are in the same group, the DOT effect on Swooping Dragon prevents the other Monks from using their skill until the DOT wears off. Most of the damage comes from the inital boot to the head, not the DOT. However, no part of the skill can be used because the DOT part would not take hold. Please consider changing it so that the DOT effect will overwrite the existing one instead of having the spell fail to take effect. * If you Feign Death in mid-air while falling you will take no damage when you hit the ground. Also, if you land in deep water you will remain floating at the surface and you will not loose breath. (Unconfirmed, have seen reports both ways) * Safe fall skill is either not raisable or the method to raise it is not known * Combat arts that increase skills were bugged with the 12/3 patch. Formerly they were doing +10-12 to skills, now they are doing +3-5. This affects all skills that I can test (Call of Arms, Brawler's Stance, Wisdom of Zephyl) with the exception of Martial Focus which remained unchanged. * Either the description of Taunting Slap or the skill itself are bugged. The description states that it "deals minor damage to the enemy while increasing hate towards the brawler." The actual skill does no damage. It's a matter of debate as to which is better - it can be useful to stack taunts on a mob without breaking mez, but any damage generated would help drag agro better, and we already have Taunt which does no damage. Fluff: * Many Monk styles have the same animation. For instance: Flying Kick, Thrust Kick, Swooping Dragon. Though it is somewhat cool to do all three in a row * Some form of Monkly meditation pose would be nice. Human male sitting looks pretty good but a Monk-specific meditation emote (that is permanent until moving) would be fantastic. * Silent Fist Kata isn't very monkly. No showmanship, flexing muscles, or stupid pointless arm-waving. Any martial artist doing those in a kata would be laughed at. A suggestion for a possible change in animations: Bow; some blocks, in multiple directions; some attacks, preferably using at least 2 stances; bow. Perhaps a few variations on the animation?Personally, I wouldn't mind if it starts immediately with an impressive looking attack like the roundhouse kick, because my favorite use of the Kata is to Wind Walk directly in front of someone harvesting and fire off the Kata * I don't think anyone is really proud of the silk-circus-performer / male-escort look of the level 20s quest armor. When I first put mine on I was immediately propositioned... There are high hopes for armor that looks like the armor worn by the Monks in the Dojo in the Elddar Grove. Message Edited by bonesbro on 11-30-2004 12:25 AM Message Edited by bonesbro on 12-01-2004 01:40 AM Message Edited by bonesbro on 12-06-2004 02:30 PM Message Edited by bonesbro on 12-07-2004 09:23 AM
Great list! I would like to add a few or at least have some questions answered: Why do so many of our skills share the same timer? Is this something that all classes deal with, or is this a bug? The timer on Mend (5 minutes) is a bit extreme I think. How useful is it really to heal 80 points of damage every 5 minutes? We are talking about less than a 10% heal here. For content at level 20, that is less than the damage done in a single hit. On top of that the casting time is long, and as bones was saying the range is VERY short. Feign death does not lose agro. If the creature or NPC has judged you to be dead, why would he run from 100 meters away to kill you again when you get up? Especially when he has no line of sight to you. Are we missing our special tiger form, or do we get it later? Does Indomitable Will actually do anything? When I get that Dazzle affect from a chest trap Indomitable Will does nothing to clear that. If that is not a mental state, what exactly is a mental state, and how do I tell when I have one on me. It's not like there is some icon in my affects list, or is there? I don't think I have ever seen Thundering Fists cause a stun, but then again it is hard to tell when you group with people who can stun. Can we make it clearer when a player has caused an affect, maybe add some text to the combat spam? My parry is no better than a Berserker's parry of the same level, is this correct? If we don't get mitigation, shouldn't our parry be beter? I am sure I can think of more, but some of them may start to leave the discussion of specifically Monk bugs/questions. Good idea to start summarizing these, maybe we can get a TOP 5 LIST to present to the developers and get some action taken.
1. Those skills are upgrades to your old ones, and should be used instead when you get them to the same level (app3/adept1). Its designed that way to keep your hotbar from need 1000 hotkeys on it. 3. FD loses aggro for me, but keep in mind if you stay FD mobs will eventually aggro you again. You need to wait a few seconds for them to path back after your sucessful FD. 2. What lvl mend do you have? At lvl 28 mine has done a max of about 220 which is a little more than 10%. Mine is adept 1. Please also remember that there are two upgrades to mend I believe in the later levels. Heal, and I forget the other one. Keep in mind that Mend is more of an emergency convience than a true "heal". Its mainly designed to give the tank a few extra seconds on a mob, or save yourself so you can FD, imho. 4. Tiger Form is available on the trainer in Elddar for 2g and some change, you can scribe at lvl 40. 5. I dunno, I've never used it. 6. I've never seen TS stun, but I still used it as my main stance when off-tanking/dps until 28 when I got Dragon Stance. 7. My parry does ok, especially with adept 1 karmic focus and brawlers stance. I'd make sure you are using at least adept1s for most of your skills if possible, and app3s on the rest, it really does make a big difference. That and I try to keep all my gear white or better. Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 11-30-2004 07:39 AM
1. I don't see how taunting slap is an upgrade to Wild Swing, but I guess I will take your word for it. 3. FD doesn't always lose agro, I have had stuff run from 100 meters away to attack me again when I stand up. 2. I have adept 1 Mend and am level 20. I think maybe it did 100 once, but my main issue is the 5 minute timer combined with the low heal. If it was even half that time it would be much more useful. 7. I am not talking about parrying doing ok, I am talking about the raw parry score. At level 20 I have 100, a berserker had the same score at that level. If our task is damage avoidance, doesn't it make sense that we would be better at parrying?
I'm not sure these really constitute bugs. For the first one I don't think it's going to be practical for SOE to make a completely separate animation for every single move since we have somewhere around 50 moves. You are talking about a lot of animator time being spent on a single class as well as a lot of memory being required to store all those animations. Compounding this is the fact that if the monks were given separate animations for every move then all the other classes would ask for the same thing. Meditation would be cool, but since there isn't even a /meditate command the lack of an animation isn't a bug, it's just a request. Not that there is anything wrong with the request. I think it would be cool to have a meditation pose. I'm just saying it isn't a bug. Thrust hands at the end of Silent Fist Kata isn't really a bug, either, it's just something you don't like about the animation. Other people like the animation and probably wouldn't want to see it changed. Personally I've never had anyone give me grief over it, and I use it a lot, but I am not so married to the animation that I would object to having it replaced if the replacement looked even cooler. One bug I will add to the list, if you Feign Death in mid-air while falling you will take no damage when you hit the ground. Also, if you land in deep water you will remain floating at the surface and you will not loose breath.
Taunting slap does no damage, at least it didn't use to, haven't payed attention to see if it does now or not.
I never said it was the upgrade for power strike, just that same icon'd/same timer skills are upgrades.
That is not always true. My crusader has about 5 sword HO icons that do not have the same timer. I think this one is actually a mistake that SOE made.
Thanks - I added the "feign death while falling" bug and seperated out the fluff requests into a seperate heading. I'm leaving the "FD but not losing agro" bug off until we have either better steps to repro the bug or a very solid description of what exactly the bug is. "FD doesn't always lose agro" sounds a little too close to By Design to add to the list right now. Not saying it might not be a bug - I had problems with that too, and it was actually the cause of my only death tonight - but I think we need to understand the behavior a little bit more before calling for a specific fix.
Hence I said same icon AND same timer. Trust me it is true, at lvl 29 I have went through tons of upgrades.
I tried the Feign Death in Mid-Air, apparently it was changed after you said this, or you just got lucky because I tried it and died :smileytongue: He stated in his post that if there were changes to animations or ones that you would like to see added, post them here as well. Maybe you just skipped his first part hehe. I need to reach level 20 before seeing this animation to say myself if it looks too rediculous at the end or not. I don't recall, but I don't think Taunting Slap is an upgrade to power strike... as power strike deals damage, and taunting slap does nothing? Maybe a little bit, but nothing compaired to power strike. Did you mean Taunt? Anyways, good list so far.
Yes, my point is that it does no damage while in the description it says "Deals minor damage to the enemy while increasing hate towards the brawler." Seeing as it does no damage, it is definetly bugged. Either that or the description needs to be rewritten to something like "Increases hate towards the brawler better than taunt."
dont know if anyone else hates this, but those useless 30 second defense buffs. Do they increase in duration. By the time my group buffs up and i buff it, its half done, so its good for 10 secs by the time i engage. Please increase the duraction to 1-2 minutes, cuz its a joke now.
Re: Silent Fist Kata I don't mind the arms thrust out at the end (actually a common kata ending) but it is WAY too short, and the muscle flex and the part where you wave your arms around is very un-kata-like. Should be: Bow Some blocks, in multiple directions Some attacks, preferably using at least 2 stances. Bow No showmanship, flexing muscles, or stupid pointless arm-waving. Any MA doing those in a kata would be laughed at. Zadkiel.
I don't think Taunting slap should do damage, even if it is in the description. Mostly because sometimes you want to stack taunts onto a mezed creature before you engage it again so it doesn't automaticly charge the healer or caster when the mez finaly breaks.
