Our Haste song may turn into a pure DPS buff tho, that will be interesting if true. Orgin I think thats where alot of us Dirges will be split tho, as far as do we want the DPS or do we want the debuff/buffs. Its like theres 2 opposites ends looking in on how the Dirge should function. Im really not concerned which way we go tho as long as the opposite counters with a plus side. But I do think we will get the short end of the stick as far as buffs/debuffs go but with that an increase to our combat arts, whether that be shorter timers/lower power use/higher damage. But all in all I think when we will see changes to other classes debuffs/buffs and we may not be as discouraged. Thinking that full spectrum we are going to see some tighter use and allocation of superior debuffs/buffs.
I've spent quite a bit of time with the changes. I like it, my dps has gone up in relation to other scouts, and to my own old parses. My utility has gone up, it has also gone up in relation to other scouts. Things we are known for are even better now. Moorgard said I could talk abut this stuff, even then I'll be testy but feel free to ask me any questions that I'm allowed to answer.
would be nice if you could just list the spells who changed in some way (just the important ones, if these are too many ^^) and the new spells we get (if there are any). you actually should be allowed to answer anything about any spell under lvl 51, question is if you got enough time to write it all down (there are already write downs of warlock, fury etc changes) ^^ Message Edited by Zarzu on 08-05-2005 06:35 AM
Welcome my friends to: The Dawn of the Dirge Hello full line of Lanet's Wave bye bye to Boon Master 1, currently it doesn't do anything no more def no more skills. (Neither does swan song) since spells no longer scale to our level a plus 12 to class archtype is worthless We can still ignore that choral debuff crap spell avoidance stat has been removed from the game. Hello lithe disbelief 56 agi at ad3 with pluses to melee offensive skills, self only 1 conc Hello hyrans raging sonata 44 str at ad1 and +20% hate to its target (can be self) 1 conc Hello rianas spiteful sustain 41% dps at master 1, 2 conc Hello Bria's 24 mana per tick at ad3 Wave bye bye to Jeals crap dmg, no tap, no mana. Hello Wail of the Banshee 120ish dmg per tick , (broken component that will do 600-900 dmg at termination) freaking owns anyway Hello Jarol's 400 dmg no target limit finally our aoe is comparable to the one troubs got. Hello instant cast no mana wail of woe with no dmg component, also blue aoe so be careful with it wave bye bye to buffing sta with our harls kindling strain hello 10% chance to proc on tombs, now with more crypts revenge Tarvens master now with less dmg but still awesome, no more heat component now disease bereavement bye bye int debuff and mana drain, only 90 health tap at ad3 afflicted blade bye bye disease debuff guttural shriek now with 27% dps debuff at master 1 fear with no conc no fear on our last invis backstab, now with 46 wis debuff verliens hello disease debuff and run speed slow oh and we are now almost entirely disease based HELLO int, I've been playing with it a long time now with results! ludas dmg improved also improves with more int cry of the dead dmg improves with int, now with more health tap wail of the banshee also improves with more int There are some other things I'm not sure if I can speak of so I'll refrain, since these are facts that are in the combat changes on test and available, and I don't want to tread anywhere near taboo. I'm parsing between 190-240 dps regularly, peaking at 255dps and bottoming out at around 140dps if I'm not paying attention Message Edited by MiscreantPyro on 08-05-2005 07:09 AM
how about run speed? Do we get to keep that? does it ever upgrade or does it go away now when that line upgrades?
Ok, reading most of this just makes me want to cry, and due to that, I just got one question...do they take away Elegy ( rezz ) aswell? Since they seem to want to nerf us totally. Message Edited by Spellsinger00 on 08-05-2005 06:02 PM
Thanks Symph:smileyhappy: Rez on a minute timer is great, we keep that utitlity but also get pushed away from relying on it. I never liked the concept of mass rezzing at raids for the win. An occasional mishap rez is perfect for keeping the difficulty factor in alot of raids. So we do loose Haste and pick up pure DPS style buff, pfft Im happy if thats true, 27% or so DPS buff completely owns some 25% haste buff as far as Im concerned. Im not worried about loosing Boons, like I previously had mentioned I believe all classes will be getting pushed from these style of buffs and stackability in order to get the true balancing of things to work out. Looking good, looking good, looking good..
Nerfed! Nerfed?! Oh please! We got some serious improvements! How could you read everything that Symph posted and get nerf out of that? So our Boon line is currently useless... they aren't done yet! All in all we got a serious improvement! Songs that were previously useless are now highly useful! And if you're looking at raw number differences... stop. Seriously. Mobs got the same numeric differences as part of the tweaks.
41% dps buffs from rianas, 6% or so from JMA currently, these buffs goes directly to weapon dmg ratio.
I hope you're right because loss of level adjusting will kill the game for me. I love our luck line and concidering how much money I have put into it having it taken away will be the 'straw'. Same with Jael's I just plopped some serious PP down for that baby.
Looks like Boon now buffs spells and combat arts of all scouts and fighters EXCEPT dirge and troubadors. Why cant that buff work for bards too? Why do we get pushed out of the category of scouts for that buff. Grr
Just balancing, other scouts supposed to be above us DPS wise. I mean if a Ranger could play us a mana buff, a dps buff, a proc buff, ect ect, then maybe we should be in line with them.
That is not the actual problem. The problem is spells no longer scale with level, so +12 to a subclass skill from Boon Master does jack [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] atm.
What's funny Symph, is the amount of people worried about the sky falling with regards to Boon. No one's even really noticing the one true hit I think we took... Jael's. [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] near everything else is a change for the better, or at least lateral.
Oh I noticed it Godstalk. I just spent 1.4pp upgrading it to AD3 for my next level. Believe me I noticed it. And please stop with the "sky is falling" line. That is so tired and old. Just because someone doesn't like a change someone else pulls out that tired old "sky is falling" line to slap them down for mentioning it. You may like these changes and that is fine but currently as they stand I don't. What I see is a ton of PP I spent upgrading spells getting nerfed or removed. I don't get that PP back to upgrade the new useful abilities that were just AD1 and collecting dust in my extra toolbars.
OK so Jaels' got nerfed. Hope it doesn't stay that way. Boon is currently broken; I'm willing to bet money it doesn't stay that way. Sorry about the "sky is falling" line... I wasn't specifically targetting you, but the HUGE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE crying over changes they haven't even seen in action yet. They just look at the numbers comparison which *really* doesn't work, I promise you. I ain't saying all is roses and candy yet, but it's a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sight better than it was.
I am sorry but I don't see it as better than it was in it's current form. What I see is that my cool 'Jack of all Trades that was Master of None' bard character is getting turned into a DPS machine with even more concentration slot issues. If I wanted to be pure DPS I would have picked a more pure DPS class. I liked that I had lots of variety and utility while still having respectable damage and being an asset to any group no matter it's configuration. I liked being able to pull a card out for almost every needed scenario. I may not have had the strongest cards in the deck but I had the most variety and with my personal skill and investment in AD3's/Masters I made my varied deck very strong indeed. Fine now I am narrowed to a specific role and not much room to manuever out of my little niche. Blegh that's boring. Any monkey can hit a button and do lots of damage which is why I found nuke type classes to be the most boring classes in any game I have ever played. The Good Hello full line of Lanet's (although since I still used and loved my old Lanets I don't care about this until Lanets starts to suckso it's a future good) Hello hyrans raging sonata 44 str at ad1 and +20% hate to its target (can be self) 1 conc (I'd probably have to run this all the time in any group with a tank since I do more damage and tanks will probably do less...hmm which conc slot do I sacrifice.) Edit: Moved Riana's to the bad section. Hello Bria's 24 mana per tick at ad3 (cool) hello 10% chance to proc on tombs, now with more crypts revenge (rarely used but can't argue that 10% is better than 5%) guttural shriek now with 27% dps debuff at master 1 (Since haste/slow were not always useful this is prob agood change although I'd rather see haste and slow be made useful - i.e. effect CA's) ludas dmg improved also improves with more int (I was happy with my DPS before but yes for some more is better) The Bad Wave bye bye to Boon Master 1, currently it doesn't do anything no more def no more skills. (Neither does swan song) since spells no longer scale to our level a plus 12 to class archtype is worthless (This was the most fun song I had hands down.) We can still ignore that choral debuff crap spell avoidance stat has been removed from the game. (any skill adjustments rocked and not only do our spells land more often but it helped lower level casters to join in the fun as well) Hello lithe disbelief 56 agi at ad3 with pluses to melee offensive skills, self only 1 conc (I felt the buffs in this line should not stack but i LOVED that they did not use a precious conc. Remove the stacking don't give me a fricken conc eater) Wave bye bye to Jeals crap dmg, no tap, no mana. (I liked the taps and given the lower grey version of this did as much damage as ludas I did not think it was crap damage anyway, however I did not pick a bard to be pure DPS, that's what assassin, ranger, wizard, warlock and even swash/brigs are for. Ii'd rather have the Mana/HP drains on things I can use while moving) Hello instant cast no mana wail of woe with no dmg component, also blue aoe so be careful with it (not to mention I already mastered how to time my casts to interrupt healers, this is just a mash the button hit everything crutch for the novice, I'll take the low damage and encounter restricted where I have to use skill to make it useful thank you) wave bye bye to buffing sta with our harls kindling strain (wave bye bye to lots of HP's, at a raid one of the tanks said they missed me in their group and wanted their HP's back, even more relegated to DPS groups now) Tarvens master now with less dmg but still awesome, no more heat component now disease (so when I face a disease immune mob I have no alternatives and am not the Jack of all Trades bards are supposed to be) bereavement bye bye int debuff and mana drain, only 90 health tap at ad3 (I liked the debuffs and mana drains, I did not pick a bard to be pure DPS, that's what assassin, ranger, wizard, warlock and even swash/brigs are for and i'drather have more HP drains on things I can use while moving) afflicted blade bye bye disease debuff (it debuffed mental I believe but losing it sucks regardless) oh and we are now almost entirely disease based (so when I face a disease immune mob I have no alternatives and am not the Jack of all Trades bards are supposed to be) (wave bye bye Kelkarn's Opening Act as I am sure it's just as badly effected as our luck line - Boon - and Choral debuff. These spells helped my friends and I to take on some very challenging stuff. While we didn't always win we often did and got a huge sense of accomplishment knowing we took on some kick **** mobs) Hello rianas spiteful sustain 41% dps at master 1, 2 conc (Edit: This still only effects auto-attack dmg per Moorgard's post and therefore is not nearly as cool as people make it out to be. Having haste/slow actually work on CA's and auto-attack would be a much better system) The Unsure (or don't care) fear with no conc (It was never used that much and if I had to I would just drop something, give me back my self buff with no conc instead) Hello Jarol's 400 dmg no target limit finally our aoe is comparable to the one troubs got. (I never cared about being a massive AOE nuker. That's the job of wizards and warloks. And I NEVER had troub envy. All I wanted was the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] AE's to not stun me. It was a reasonable request.) cry of the dead dmg improves with int, now with more health tap (unless you can do while moving now or the cast time is greatly reduced, i'd rather have my bow tap and blade tap unchanged) Hello Wail of the Banshee 120ish dmg per tick , (broken component that will do 600-900 dmg at termination) freaking owns anyway (never used so don't care at this point, not to mention I don't really desire to be so DPS focused) verliens hello disease debuff and run speed slow (I guess if they are making me 100% disease this is probably bouncing between good and bad. I did like the stun and the wisdom reduction would probably be just as helpful given that I believe wisdom now helps with spell resists plus would have lowered priests power reserves..yeah this is bouncing so unsure) wail of the banshee also improves with more int (never used so don't care at this point, not to mention I don't really desire to be so DPS focused) Message Edited by Fromingo on 08-06-2005 08:54 PM
