Bug for crafted apprentice items

You might consider making your own TS apprentice daily crafting hub. I brought all of the apprentices from my various TS alts and placed them in one characters house making sure they all had trustee status. I intentionally chose one of my smallest houses so there would be virtually no running around. I then purchased a forge, woodworking station, and a sewing station and placed them all in the same house along with making harvest and fuel depots to handle needed materials. This saved me the extra trip back to the GH to complete the apprentice quest each day as I too found that process to be annoying.

Oh, I also made sure to place one of the Tranquil Seas quest pillars in the same home so I could zone right from my apartment after finishing the apprentice daily to head over to work on the normal TS daily quest (and seagulls.)

This is merely conjecture on my part, but perhaps one justification for the rarity is that it can deter the higher end items from becoming the de facto standard for groups (as well as extending the content*, since it will take longer for folks to get to the point where they faceroll everything). If only a small portion of the items is available at any given time, then the majority of players won't have them within a ridiculously short amount of time. Thus groups that are requiring ancients/GMs for every spell and anything that can have an essence to have one, then all they are doing is decreasing the pool from which they can draw group members**.

I have received exactly one spellshard, and it was a low level one. (It wasn't worth more than 4 plat on the broker.) However, I just go out under the assumption that I'm not going to find any of them (nor any of the other things that I want, like Advanced Adornment Volume 11). This reduces disappointment on my part, since I'm not expecting anything more than common harvests with the occasional rare. Also, if I assume that I'm not going to get any of the ultra-rare items, then I'm pleasantly surprised on the few occasions that I do get something.

Ultimately, a person has to decide how he or she is going to be affected by the game.
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Back on the thread topic, we're just going to have to agree to disagree about whether their change in intent is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm not likely to convince those that appear to think that crafting them on the day that the quest requires them is "da debil" that the change is a good thing***. And those folks aren't likely to convince those of us that don't mind the change that it is a bad thing. I know that sometimes those of us on one side of an issue perceive that the other side are a bunch of unenlightened luddites, but in actuality neither side is likely to be comprised completely (or even mostly) of folks that lack critical thinking skills.

Each of us has reasons for our stance on the matter, and while one side might not relate to the other side's reasons, that doesn't stop those reasons from being valid - regardless whether that validity is subjective or objective in nature.

* Because let's face it, the less time that one has to spend in order to reach one's goals, the less likely it will be for them to keep playing this game until the next major content update. I'm not saying that everything should be drudgery, but there appears to be a direct correlation between the rapidity of progression and the decline of the transient population**** (i.e. the portion of the player base that only sticks around until they've reached their goals, then hops to a different game until more content is released for this one).
** And if they subsequently can't fill groups anymore, then they are the only ones that they can truthfully blame for that outcome - but I'm not naive enough to think that they won't try to blame SOE for the result of those players' decisions.
*** I'm not saying that they actually think that, just that it appears that way from my perspective.
**** There may also be folks that quit from frustration, but I would need unrestricted access to population figures to determine whether those folk comprise a significant portion of the total revenue loss from cancelled or non-renewed subscriptions or from free players that spend a decent amount of money on SC purchases. Because I'm not likely to have access to that within the foreseeable future, the best that I can say is that none of us sees the complete picture, so the data that we do see is susceptible to confirmation bias (i.e. giving greater significance to data that support***** our respective positions on the matter in question, while simultaneously disregarding or downplaying data that don't support our respective positions).
***** FYI, I'm using a plural verb because I am using the word data in the plural sense (i.e. more than one datum).

You probably didn't read this whole thread (I know I wouldn't if I came to it this late in the game) but I already said I do not want crafting stations in any of my houses.

Btw, I hadn't followed this thread too closely after Caith responded which basically settled the matter in my mind. I still haven't read every post. I DID get far enough today after I last replied to see that you had already given a detailed explanation of what I suggested to Wurm. So, sorry for mooching your suggestion.

Overall, I lean towards the side of the argument that says this change, while not making daily task easier, is probably better described as a "fix" than it is a nerf. The old way really didn't "feel" right to me in terms of how quest typically function, especially daily ones.

See, this is what happens when you take a phone call in the middle of replying. /bah

Which is why I called it a change born of bureaucracy.

Is there a compelling in-game reason for the item to be crafted on the spot? No. (The reward is a penalty over half the time... i would not spend 9 gold to get 20 common harvests or most of the crafting potions. And the minute it takes to craft the item is not significant on its own. Multiplied by 9 crafters and 7 days a week, though, I'm now wasting another hour of playtime which could be spent on something interesting, fun, or, at minimum, guaranteed to earn me something, instead.)

Is there a suspension-of-disbelief reason? Just the opposite, in fact. (A day-old leather belt is not likely to have spoiled or rotted before it could be used.)

No, it's just "this is how all the other quests work, so this is how this one should work."

What sticks in my craw (and, apparently, the craws of ~14 pages worth of other players) is the pebble-in-my-shoe aspect of it. Is it a huge change? No. But it's an incremental annoyance that serves no purpose. Made worse by the fact that they made someone on this understaffed dev team spend time on something that makes my game experience worse (every day, nine times a day), rather than doing something to make the Brell-danged game more FUN.

That's an easy enough position to understand, yes?

When did I state I didn't understand the position some others were taking? I get the angst even if I don't personally feel it.

I'm sorry that your suspension of disbelief requires that the dev team literally create an entirely new and unique daily for...well...ever. The entire reason this feels more like a fix to me is because of mass production. Pre-completing a quest that way strikes me as awfully odd in terms of mechanics with no real solid comparisons in the game (borderline exploitish.) In truth I'd have no problem if they simply removed the mass production drop box off of these particular recipes and each had to be crafted individually. So, in that case, you could still make as many as you wanted in advance (if they changed it) but you couldn't make three months worth in one combine.

Oh well, I don't really have a dog in this fight so I'll let you have at it. If you guys happen to convince the dev team to make the changes you are looking for, I might even use them. I'm not going to hold my breath on that. I don't view efforts to keep broad mechanics marginally uniform as inherently bureaucratic in nature. I'd generally call that good game design. The main problem we have in this case is that it was allowed to remain unchanged for so long before it was fixed/changed/nerfed (feel free to pick your own ending to that sentence.)

I wouldn't have replied at all except I thought my suggestion might have proven helpful to Wurm. I now know he has chosen not to take that step. (Now, there is something that I have to admit I don't entirely understand since it would..not could...would help at least in some small part with the issues he is describing but that is certainly his choice to make and frankly, I don't need to understand it.)

It's not a change born of bureaucracy. It's a change from having a new set of eyes something as well as listening to and addressing player concerns. "This and that aren't worth doing." "This is too easy." etc.

The idea that this fix actually took away from getting something else done is amusing. I don't know exactly how the quests are set up, but I'm certain it was a simple matter of changing a field to where it won't check inventory for items... not a huge timesink.

Those who think more tedium was introduced by going back to how 99.8% of the quests work in the game are ignoring the fact that a great deal of tedium was removed with the ability to purchase so many of the research-able recipes. I think it's great that apprentices are more of an option, especially when they haven't properly satisfied all the classes. Carpenters have been without anything of reasonable interest that fits in their normal range of product.

I saw a post from Caith that advised research assist. crafted items would no longer stack and be used for later same item quests. .Just for S and giggles, can you also tell me why this was changed??..Its just one more thing that causes me, with 11 crafters, absolutely no sense for this change to be incorporated by you guys. It would seem its just a poke in the eye to cause us more time consuming, unnecessary time which i have little of with the new content, leveling, craft upgrades, gear upgrades, harvesting/gath, running groups, etc etc etc. I mean really, what did that accomplish. Dont tell me its an exploit after i get mass production earned talents and level all my toons on a long road and then SONY makes a petty change that just inconveniences the hell out of everyone.

There was a lot of discussion about this change. It only affects 96 and up crafters, btw. Apparently the pre-making of items was "unintended" but they didn't want to mess up all the stacks of things we had on 95 and lower crafters. Now, post 95 it is working as "intended". (Explain to me again why those things are stackable?)

Is that bug that causes the housing server to go unresponsive at times also been fixed? House hopping with that bug has been part of a crafter's headache for quite a while.

Then they only listened to the sadomasochistic players for this change. Normal players darn sure didn't come up with this one.

Oh well you see I like to keep my house free from crafting (I'd put my apprentice in the guildhall in a heart-beat if I could) but since I have no alts (other than a few name placeholders) the change really doesn't bother me too much. But I have guildies who hardly ever complain about anything dumb SOE manages to do, who have been very vocal about how much they hate this change.

And regardless of what Dev has to say about it, this change is as bureaucratic as it gets.

Deveryn seems to have his own agenda, and it doesn't mesh with the good of the crafting community (as I see it). Maybe he thinks it does, but I don't have his "foresight" as to how it possibly could.

Edit: It was stressed by the devs that as much as we dislike it, the pre-making of items was unintneded. As a side-effect, it's one of the many reasons that I didn't log on at all for over a month. Still considering if I'll log on again tomorrow. Probably not, since little seems to have changed and it's still more depressing than fun.

He has always been like that though, if it was up to him I'm quite sure we would be back to sub combines.

Fwiw, I intentionally chose one of the old 2 room (originally single room) homes of a character who has a Mistmoore Crag Estate as a main house now. I closed if off to visitors other than trustees and it only exists now to service my TS apprentice needs.

But, as I said...it's none of my business. I just know I'd be pulling my hair out if I was constantly crashing to character select while zoning and at the same time needing to zone a bunch of characters in and out of the GH to do this every day. Hope the bug gets worked out for you.

You did not. I apologize; that part of my comment was meant generally and not as a direct reply to you. I should have split my comment in two to make that clear.

BTW, Deveryn was actively pushing to make Far Seas Tokens the main token for crafters. Looks like he got his way. Hope the dust settles in his direction because, overall, I'm not playing much either crafter or adv this latest xpac. Won't be buying more krono, that's for sure.

I pushed to have more use for the tokens and keep it as an ongoing currency, as opposed to going through the same old reset that the adventurers go through. If you think I alone have that much power, fine... whatever. I'm an evil overlord out to destroy crafting as you know it. I have Caith by the ear and my will be done.

The truth is others just went along with it and it was actually a good idea.

Well, that puts you AND Caith right out of the trustworthy genre....does Caith know that?

and everyone but the provishiners depending on the alchemists.