This topic is mainly being posted for the benefit of new players or existing players who are considering playing a bruiser. I have been playing Bruiser as my main for the last five years and in that time I have seen literally thousands of players mistakenly pick Bruiser thinking this is a DPS class only to become disolusioned with that class choice very quickly. So this is being posted to set the record straight once and for all. Bruisers are 100% Tanks. As a player who always plays a tank class I am extremely proud to play as a bruiser. The bruiser uses high avoidance to avoid taking damage and makes use of target locks and threat positionals to hold multiple mobs off damage dealers and healers. I love playing the bruiser as a tank and would not play any other class. Abilities like closed mind and sonic fists + drag gives us unique abilties no other tank has while having more 100% strikethrough immune dodges and death saves then ever before. Bruiser are just incredibly awesome tanks. For the love of all that is don't pick Bruiser if all you want to do is DPS. Bruisers pretending to DPS is the biggest joke ever. Not only are bruisers not a dps class, the bruiser is not even the highest dps fighter. Bruisers are good tanks that get the job done and that is all that matters, clearing the zone quickly and without any deaths is what a good tank should strive for. Please if you do not like to tank zones then don't play a bruiser. There are a dozen other DPS flavored classes to pick from. Don't be that bruiser spamming chat with "DPS LFG" for hours on end and never getting a group because you will never be taken seriously. However, if you love tanking and always like play the tank then by all means bruiser is the way to go. This message has been brought to you by your friendly neighborehood tanking bruiser.
Novusod wrote: I have been in and out of this game over the years and I will state that you are probably correct with what you are stating here. I see your passion for the bruiser class. I am basing some of this from what I remember years ago. My issue here is that brusiers were at one time very strong offensively. From what I remember bruisers never had a good defensive ability and didn't get an awesome defensive ability until they got their mythical. So up to that point the only thing a bruiser did have was a high damage output. Sure a decked out bruiser can get the job done but from a healer perspective the crusaders and zerkers have more survival and can dump out damage better than a bruiser in todays game. In the early two or three years of the game this was not the case. A brusier doesn't have enough defensives until they get to 80 and above and of course enough aa to give them what they need to compete. Until then a bruiser really isn't much defensively. Not trying to argue with ya here but I do remember bruisers doing a whole lot more damage as a fighter than any other fighter years ago. No fighter could really compete with the damage potential of a bruiser....back then anyway. However times have changed and brusiers are in fact much more defensive than they have ever been at least from the levels of 80-90. While I will agree with bruisers being much better defensively they have lost their once great offensive side while crusaders and zerkers have both a great defensive side and also a great offensive side to boot. Basically what ever crusaders and zerkers can tank offensively a bruiser must do it defensively. I don't think any player who rolled a bruiser had the mentality that they were gonna be assassin like dps but I do know that way back when bruisers did have the highest damage potential of the fighter arch-type. If anything a bruiser has all they need defensively. With good defensive gear bruisers are very very sweet for tanking. I just think that it is an injustice that fighters like the sk, paladin, and zerker get buffed defensively as well as offensively.
I love playing my bruiser. I wish I had more time to do so. I can do great burst DPS which lests me burn down and solo stuff, and the tools that a bruiser has, FD, close mind, stone deaf, myth clickie and the like make training and getting around a snap. 2 boxing with my mystic or dirge is fun and there is not a lot of content that I attempt to do that I hve to give up because it can't be done. I do wish though that the devs would choose what they want bruisers to be and stick with it. For a long time we were ignored in the tank world and had to prove to people we could do it. Even now many people still see a bruiser as a second rate tank. Sadly, for raiding, it is that way a lot. We lost a bit of that offensive prowness that the previous poster mentioned when they set all fighters on the same auto attack table.
Actually I think what you are remembering is players having the wrong idea about the class rather then the bruiser class's actual capabilities. It was player habits that defined the class more then anything. Of course a DPS minded player is not going to make a very good tank. At the same time the DPS concerned bruiser will always end up parsing higher than the player that is not concerned with the parse. This became a self reinforcing trend that tarnished the reputation of bruiser tanking leading in turn to more bruisers taking on a prefered DPS role. This combination of events turned a slight DPS edge into something fully blown out of proportion. The high parsing bruiser was an unfortunate anomoly that didn't even exist for all that long. It has been 3 years since Mythicals came out and yet some still precieve this as a recent event. Bruisers recieved the most defensive Mythical in the game because we are tanks. Many players still have this wrong idea in their heads that Bruiser is a dps class. There is no injustice that other fighters have closed the dps gap or even surpassed us. The only injustice is the sence of entitlement that many bruisers have at being slighted out of a pretend dps role. That is the main reason why I wrote this essay. You would be surprised at how many sin-becilies are out there thinking bruiser is a scout and making fools of themselves while further damaging the reputation of the class. New bruisers should not be falling into a mindset that should have been left dead in the past 3 years ago. I want to encurage players who like to tank to play bruiser with confidence that Bruiser is just as good a Warrior or Crusader at tanking. Bruiser is the most defensive class there is. Bruisers are kings of defense. Crusaders actually have less defense then we do but have more self healing, wards, and life taps. I have tanked all kinds of heroics, epics, and raids while currently serving as the MT of my guild. This is the way a Bruiser is meant to be played. I am a tanking Bruiser.
My time to chime in. I do not agree that bruisers are the kings of defense nor are they the most offensive any more either. Bruisers do not even really get good defensively until they either get enough aa or they get their mythical ability which both are achieved at the higher levels. Defensive stance for a bruiser is the way to go in today's game cause offensive stance has no real benefits like how the defensive stance was buffed. I remember back when those fortunate bruisers got their mythical and that is when a bruiser finally got noticed to be considered a fighter that can tank. If a bruiser didn't have their mythical they were not even close to being a defensive tank. So no matter how old the mythical ability is it is a must for a bruiser. Until then I would say that bruisers are a sub-par fighter class defensively compaired to monks, zerkers, guardians, and paladins. Sk's like bruisers are not that defensive until enough aa's are achieved. Now one area that would help mid level bruisers would be retribution of stone aa. This aa has promise but it just doesn't make the cut because its inconsistant proc rate. Nice to have but needs to be enhanced. I remember players in my guild asking me to bring my bruiser for dps. They didn't ask for my zerker or sk at that time for back up dps. Just my bruiser cause my bruiser did more damage back then. This again was three + years ago but my bruiser was extremely good damage and was known for it. Even though a bruiser is a fighter class they were more than capable of inflicting some massive bruises and cracking skulls. They did have the potential. Now I agree with you Novusod that a fully aa'ed level 90 bruiser defensively is a solid tank. However new brusiers will not see this until end game. Personally I have always believed that bruisers chose a powerful offense before a strong defense. Thats just me.
Brawlers do not need high level AA's or their Mythical to tank in low level content. All that is required is a good defense and proper stategy. I have also done some experiments on playing low level locked bruiser on a server separated from my main. My low level bruiser had no problems tanking Crushbone Keep, Kaladim, and Runnyeye. Abilities such as intercept require a strong defense. It makes zero sense to go offensive as it does not add any significant amount of damage to a group's total DPS. Bruisers should always be picking defensive options because we are the defensive tank. Other tanks such as Crusaders can tank in offensive but a bruiser must be in defensive at all times. It is always prudent for a bruiser to pick the physical mitigation character trait. By picking Hardy and Resistant traits a bruiser by level 30 will have an extra 540 mitigation over a bruiser that does not. Also gear choices such picking the Hammerborn Silver Band quest reward in the butcherblock mountains will add another 240 mitigation over players who choose a more offensive quest reward. Also by mid level getting 125 AA it is possible to get 21% uncontested avoidance with master defensive stance which is better then any other fighter. To say that bruisers need max AA and mythical before they can tank on a competent level is patently false. Picking offensive options is not relevent to the current state of the game where there are better tools available to the tanking bruiser. Bottem line here is one can continue to be disapointed with a misconception of bruisers being a dps class or the bruiser can be played correctly as an intended tank role at all levels. It helps to bring a positive can do attitude by learning to tank early and often so a player is used to being infront of mob before end game.
Very interesting and excellent points you have brought to my attention. I do feel that all fighters when tanking difficult content should want to use defensive stance. However this is not the case. I do agree that in today's game a bruiser should be using defensive stance when tanking cause a bruiser doesn't really see any significant damage gains when using offensive stance. My beef with the bruiser class is that bruisers should see significant damage gains when they opt to use their offensive stance for their loss in survivability. No I do not think that bruisers are a dps class but they too should be able to lay a smack down just like a crusader or zerker can when they opt to be offensive or where the content will allow it. Bruisers have to make greater sacrifices to their survival offensively where crusaders and zerkers have lesser sacrifices. Yes you are right that at the lower levels bruisers will tank just fine but they don't even imatate what an end game bruiser is. I will say that if a new player wants a challenge then the bruiser class will give just that. There really is no such thing as easy mode with the bruiser. I think that is where many players give up cause they want to play the game to have fun not to burdened and concentrate like they are trying to please their boss at work.
Novusod wrote: Once you start buying my expansions and paying my subscription fee, then you can start telling me what to do.
Rahatmattata wrote: Well said. Also No tank putting DPS LFG in channels is going to be taken seriously regardless what class they are! The reality of this game is that regardless how awesome you might be infront of the mob, holding the agro everyone from heroic instance groups to raid leaders want the most out of your dps. If your just standing their like your spaming taunts and a snaps your not contributing as much as a tank that puts in the effort to get the highest parse they can. In short just holding the mob ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH!
Oglock@Splitpaw wrote: I agree here. However years ago I read a thread that stated "if a tank is able to keep aggro and do only 1 dps then that tank did his/her job". That is a true statement but we all know that there is no way that any fighter that is tanking would be able to keep aggro without the use of some good dps. I don't know what velious holds for the fighters at this point but I do hope that fighters will be able to hold aggro cause all that frontal block and crit mit that the all mobs will have will surely make it hell for any tank to achieve and hold aggro.
My main issue when tanking with my Bruiser has always been holding aggro on multiple mobs/encounters. We just seem to lack the AoE threat generation necessary to keep the focus on us in the face of warlock AoE's, etc. An SK, as a counter-example, has several AoE damage attacks that are also threat generators. I'd really welcome any advice here from people with more experience tanking Bruisers as to how I can improve or maximize my ability to hold aggro when pullng multiple mobs/encounters.
Nahlis@Antonia Bayle wrote: I kinda felt this way too.. until I got every one of my aa goodies. The added Taunt on Beatdown, pumped up Divide and Conquer, and extended Crane Flock all help a lot, and are only available (especially all together!) once you've got some serious aa's. That said, life's a lot better with them when I'm tanking. I'd like to hear advice from anyone else that has it, but to be honest I'd have to agree with you - compared to SK's and BER's especially, we just don't have area control of the same calibre till you *really* spend the aa's.
They must have changed a lot. Back when 70 was the cap I could hang with any dps class unless they were really skilled or fully fabled, I was in full legendary mostly mastered. I actually out dmged scouts a lot of the time if they were geared like me, though they probably didnt play their class like they should have. I don't think I could have done anything but upgrade gear to get more dps out of my bruiser at the time. Thats sad to see them lose that. I LOVED how I was great dps and a great tank.
This thread is as relevent now as it was when I wrote it. In fact my opening post is a much better introduction to bruisers than the ancient and outdated page stickies.
