I have a question about the berserker in groups. I read they do wonderfully in small and large groups but most of their damage potential comes from AOE attacks. This seems to conflict with being group friendly as they would be breaking mezzes/roots constantly would they not? If they decide to not use the AOE attack to prevent breaking of mezzes/roots then they would be essentially weakening themselves in those cases thus not making them ideal vs. a single target tank who would not cause these AOE mez breaks? Thank you for any info all you seasoned berserkers can provide.
This depends on the encounter. Most of the time you don't need an enchanter to mez mobs within a single encounter, as it was designed to be killed all at the same time. If an enchanter mezzes some of the mobs, the fight will often take even longer than it would have otherwise. Also though, it is important to understand how enchanters spells work too. Things are not the same as in EQ1, where a mez could be broken by a stiff wind... In EQ2, chanters mezzes can be more powerful. For example: Most (all?) of an enchanter's single-target mezzes prevent any indirect AoE damage that would have affected it. They effectively remove that mob from the encounter while the mez is in effect. Our AoEs wont touch that mob (as long as you have a DIFFERENT mob targetted). Their AoE mezzes however, do not have the "prevents AoE" flag, and we can easily break the whole group mez at once. There are situations where it is useful to mez "pieces" of a single encounter, but those are often few and far between, most likely to postpone fighting a very powerful mob until his less-powerful friends can be dealt with. -Z-
"This seems to conflict with being group friendly as they would be breaking mezzes/roots constantly would they not?" not sure why you think that way. since when are roots and mezzes needed all the time in groups? the only time mezzes are really needed is if there's adds and the tank is taking too much damage from them and certain really tough named encounters they can be helpful for. but that's really it. roots never, why would you ever want to root a mob that your tank is trying to pull? that makes no sense at all, it doesn't prevent them from casting it only prevents the tank from posistioning and repositioning the mobs when he needs to. not a smart idea. as for rooting adds that's only a good idea if the add is on someone else other than the tank and you just want to root it so whoever it's on can get away from it long enough until the tank can get its aggro. rooting mobs that the tank has already pulled though does no good at all. so you really just have to decide if mezzing or aoe'ing is better for the situation you're in. i think in the vast majority of the cases aoe'ing is way better. also don't forget that zerkers are not the only class in the game with aoe's. in fact most other classes in the game do have at least 1 that they like to use whenever there's a multi-mob encounter, including other tanks. but yeah if you have a zerker in your group then you can pretty much forget the idea of mezzing mobs within single encounters. but then you don't really need to be doing it anyway. Message Edited by infernus006 on 12-28-2005 06:20 PM
There should absolutley be no reason to mez anything in a single non raid encounter, cept maybe very few hard named. Most of the time people should be AEing to maximize group dps.
^ i agree. i hate it when mezzers insist on trying to mezz mobs that they don't need to be mezzing in the first place and then they get mad when my aoe's break them. silly mezzers.
i agree with that, frusterating when you have a group capable of taking on multiple heroics at once, yet every time you get a group encounter the chanter type does an aoe mezz to take the stuff out of the encounter, now, where it becomes really bad is when you are in a group with non friends, normal fly-by groupies, you get some joe blow who cant assist the main tank. then, joe hits a mezzed target with a nuke or attack. then, the high aggro mezz the chanter used comes back to haunt him at that instant as all the group becomes un mezzed and starts attacking him. if i am lucky i keep aggro or get it back. if not, the chanter type dies, and we get to listen to him and joe bicker for half an hour....not to mention that most classes get some nice AoE's. in chanter type's defence, they are usefull in a non raid group. if you are soloing cons several levels higher than you and you can barely take 2 heroics in a row without a mana break, they become life saving. now, the group mezzes mentioned are not as usefull when its on a even con heroic. save it for the hard solo heroics or named, or for the epic encounters. also in their defence, i know how annoying it is to have a mezz broken. my lvl 38 wizards Boreal line spell (mezzes target for 30 seconds while immobalising the wizzy) is very usefull when dealing with multiple even con or higher solo heroics. but lemme tell you it sucks when i just get the mob mezzed, and then some doofus smacks him and he wakes up and comes to kill me...then its chain and run, ussually die. i quit doing that, sadly the safest way for me is to tether the add just before the tank and everyone else dies and run away....yet that 30 seconds of the add not smacking the tank around coulda saved the group,lol. chanters have it rough, so i wont rag on them...but the chanters are controled by humans, and thats where the problem is,lol. Message Edited by RaunII on 12-28-2005 05:02 PM
I'm not sure of the details, but AE's will no longer affect Mez. Even within a single encounter the AE will only hit your target if that encounter is AE mezed. I know this was a recent complaint by the enchanters saying that group mezing an encounter then breaking with an AE nuke was how they solo'd some small groups of mobs. A recent patch made it so if a group of mobs is Ae mezed, then AE attacks targeting that encounter would no longer hit adds and only the mob directly targeted. Wether you need to mez or not is totally up to group make up and what your fighting. Typically your better off maximizing your DPS by AE'ing the mobs, but occasionally thats not completely practical. The details i'm un-sure of would be if an encounter of mobs is single target mezed one at a time, are they subject to the same rules as AE mez. I'd imagine so, but i've heard of stranger things.
"frusterating when you have a group capable of taking on multiple heroics at once, yet every time you get a group encounter the chanter type does an aoe mezz to take the stuff out of the encounter" i agree there is no reason for them to do that on a normal basis. it doesn't do any good it just makes the tank's job harder and makes it take longer to kill the mobs that it needs to. "now, where it becomes really bad is when you are in a group with non friends, normal fly-by groupies, you get some joe blow who cant assist the main tank. then, joe hits a mezzed target with a nuke or attack. then, the high aggro mezz the chanter used comes back to haunt him at that instant as all the group becomes un mezzed and starts attacking him." rofl. that's a good point that mezzing mobs gives the chanter a hell of a lot of aggro if and when it breaks. another problem is when they insist on charming mobs to be their "pets" but you never know exactly when it's going to break and when it does then it turns aggro and tries to kill them. don't get me wrong though, it's not that i dislike grouping with chanters. most of them know these things and try not to be overzelous with their abilities. and i do like their buffs. Message Edited by infernus006 on 12-29-2005 12:11 PM
as a level 60 raiding illusionist and a newish 39 level zerker I have to agree with most of what said by my fellow posters. I most cases mezing is NOT needed and only happers dps. It does depend on the situation, occasinally mez is usefull. The ablity to judge the situation and mez or not mez is what seperates the good enchanters from the truely great ones. Comunication within the group is key if the chanter wishes to mez a particular mob (like on named encounters) so that everyone knows whats going on. In 95% of the single group encounters with a decient group, mez isnt needed but recongizing that 5% when they do happen is important. I have to admit that when I started play my illusionist I over mezed alot in groups, coming from an EQ1 background where I also was an enchanter I though I was being helpfull. I had to learn and adjust my play style to fit the mechanics of EQ2. Learning to play as a zerker has helped me understand the other side of grouping dymanics from the tank perspective. With a good healer or two a zerker can withstand a ton of damage and only the loss of agro (or untaunted adds) would justify needing to mez mobs.
Well my questions have been well answered. I was coming to this game from mostly daoc set of mind where AOE from melee classes isn't as much an issue but breaking mez is still very common (poor planning) but at least in that case it was poor planning that caused the broken mez and not built in attacks that were necessary to the tanks dps (zerker in this game). Knowing that it doesn't break single target mez and that its not as necessary to mez other than really the boss type mobs helps clear a lot up. Usually even in daoc when tanking I went off the rule that I would get aggro of all mobs on myself first then they could happily mez/root away but again in that game my attacks were all primarily single target.
Prismatic Strife is what an enchanter class should be throwing on you in a multi-mob enounter. It is great fun to watch the mobs just disintegrate from this spell combined with rampage.
If i have a mezzer in group i ask them to only mezz out of encounter adds not groups of mobs in the same encounter since they will die anyways quickly
you also have to keep in mind that it's not always necessary to mezz adds either. oftentimes it is better to let the tank use his aoe attacks to help build aggro with them without having to switch targets to do it. so only if the tank is in actual danger of dying should you even bother otherwise you're just making things harder.
From my experience, mezzing can be useful but communication is key. Usually if my group is going to mez a mob, we decide before the encounter and mez him right off. That way we can pull anything we aren't interested in mezzing away from the mezzed and go at it. In my experience, taunts don't break mez and my AoE range isn't as high as casters, except for maybe rampage which seems to have no range. Honestly, other classes are more likely to break mez if there is no communication. The very same classes that are notorious for their ability to add everything in the room to the encounter.
