Any Devs Wanna Explain Test->Live Transfers?

HaCkHaCkER wrote:

Did you see the screen shots of the stuff Luckyx and Dysisx had on the broker on Unrest? Those screenshots don't square with your story.
Also why do some many of the guild now feel that they have to make their characters Anonymous on EQ2players -- what are they hiding?
There is a lot of evidence elsewhere that makes your story dubious -- although you personally may not have shared in all the good loot the same cannot be said of all your guildmates from test.

Maroger wrote:

how does what they had on the broker master spells, TRADABLE fabled etc... have to do with how they acted?
i know for a fact that most of those were earned through raids that i participated on.
i have personally had 5 master chests drop from trash mobs in the past 3 days. masters are not hard to get. but guess what. i dont sell them i give them to the guild to do with what is best for the guild, that could be broker them for the guild bank, munge them for transmute mats, or give them to the other members who are more "core" raiders. i have passed masters for my toon in the past to give to other toons for the better of our guild. whether that was Unhallowed Triad on Unrest or Unholy Trinity on test.

having a list of masters on the broker that size is of no major accomplishment

Maroger wrote:

To answer the question, yes they can and have rolled back only certain players of the population.

Actually most states, including the ones where SOE's offices and development studios are located, are subject to "at will" termination law. This means that, a company can legally end an employees employment for ANY reason or NO reason, excluding discrimiation.
As an HR manager, I see this type of "Armchair lawyering" all the time. You CAN, in most states, simply be told " your services are no longer required - you're terminated effective immediately" and there is nothing you can do about it. And while most companies will tell you why, they are NOT required to do so.
So, just thought Id throw that out there since someone posted they thought it could have been illegal.
Additionally, while "time theft" is generally considered to be a terminatable offense at most companies, it is also not, statutorily prosecutable, and therefore, not technically illegal anyway. There may be grounds for a lawsuit, but unless you can prove the person gained financially from it , at the expense of the company (ie someone punches your time card while youre not at work and you collect a larger paycheck because of it) - you're not going to see any legal action. Kind of a moot point given the tone of the DEV posts indicating that while it was not a good decision, it wasnt out of bounds or something someone was getting fired over.
Armchair lawyers make me laugh.
Just my .02 copper

HaCkHaCkER wrote:

Please explain then why (before they all went anon on eq2players) how those copied toon made the most wealth list for unrest? If they came over wit hso LITTLE as you say.
Sorry maybe you did not and soem of your other guildies did not and may have been caught in a cross fire of the guilty members but you are part of that guild and part of the problem then. you may not like it but a guild is judged as a whole thats why its important to insure you only recruit players that reflect how you want your guild viewed. In the guild iam in if we learned of a member acting badly they would be talked to by the officers of the guild and depending on how bad it was even removed FAST. In this case it was the guild leader himself and other members of the guild. i find it hard to believe after of the facts that have come out that any member of that guild was not aware of the behavoir of there guild leader.
Fact of the matter is it is very possible and probable give the past actions of the guild leader and the members that they transfer the items and plat to the alts and the alt guild there for making those toons and the guild tainted.
Yet even you remain in UT wearing the guild tag there for showing your support of your leaders actions. That speaks a lot for how you truly feel about there actions reguardless of what you say here.

Also thanks for the links to the contact info.
Iam looking into it (was hoping for a email so i could send links to these forums) I have my wife writing up a forumal letter now incase i cant find a email(shes much better with words and typing than i am) I honestly feel this needs to go higher than eq2 itself and even SOE. Sony as a whole is bound to have corp regulations about expending employee time and resources for personal favors/gains and really should be the ones that look deeper into this. Iam just one voice though and highly recommend anyone else that is upset about this to follow suit and let sony corp itself know about this situation.

Skywarrior wrote:

I was refering to employee rights in general ... not nessicarily this specific instance, because, as you said, we only have rumor to go on in this instance. My statement was essentially that IF an employee is told to do something that is against the standing policy or they will be fired, they have the right to sue. Otherwise any company could easily use this to 'justify' fireing any employee they wanted to without repurcusion.
The thing here is that the move was against the publicly stated company policy ... and that policy has, apparently, not changed. Now the question of who has the authority to bend the rules is moot unless someone (without the authority) gets caught doing it ... in this case we're essentially being told that it was officially sanctioned .... and we, the consumers of this service, are expressing our displeasure about said choice. But how many have gone un-noticed ... how many times did they dip in and help friends and not get caught .... how often have they done it directly on live servers?
In the end SOE will do what they have always done in these cases ... they've already come in here and slapped the players of thier game .... now they'll close the curtains and turn out the lights and wait for the mob to go away ... and in another year or so when someone gets caught doing it again .... we'll go through the same motions. They'll act surpirsed at the player outrage ... say that they'll make it right, but that we should be ashamed for being outraged that they did something for thier friends that they won't allow for anyone else and then they'll close the curtains and shut off the lights and wait for that mob to go away.
In EQ it was a guild moved from one of the old servers to a 'non-split' server ... this was before you could pay for a character transfer at all. ... They got caught because one of the members had on armor that had stopped dropping before the 'non-split' server had been started (thus was impossible to have on the server). There was another issue in EQ with GM favoritizim, but I don't remember the details of that one as it was during one of my forum absences and I only heard about it from others that were following it. I believe as well that there have been a few instances and accusations in EQII prior to this that I didn't specifically follow.
At LEAST in the past SOE has generally at least given us the 'we're looking into it' ... but it is obvious from the official responces in this thread that SOE in this instance feels that they were completely in the right, and that bending or breaking the rules, including the use of development time, as a 'favor' for someone with whom they have connections is perfectly acceptable and that we, as players, should be more understanding and simply accept the fact that the way to get anything that you want in the game is to buddy up to the Devs and GMs.

It's called Favoritizim and it has destroyed online games since the earliest MUDs ... that the new head over EQII seems to feel that it is acceptable is disturbing in the least.

HaCkHaCkER wrote:

True, but you are being much too modest... you guys killed Matron and contested Mayong on Test (well, you must have, since your guild leader was wearing gear dropped only by them when he got transferred to Unrest), and that's clearly a "major accomplishment" - especially since most of your guild were apparently wearing mere Legendary gear when you killed them - seriously, that's very impressive!

Hollywood wrote:

Dont forget.
Obviously killed them often enough that they started passing out the Contested healer shoulders to assasins, I believe it was?
LOL

I don't understand why people think we transferred all our plat, masters and gear to our legit unrest toons.
Our characters were all deleted at the same time. I left work, came home, logged in and he was gone, as well as all my other guildies transferred toons.
As people were pointing out, my broker items were still for sale on the broker for several hours AFTER MY TOON WAS REMOVED.
You people need to get a clue and stop with all the speculation. Our toons are gone, our money is gone, our broker items are gone, our house items are gone, EVERYTHING WAS REMOVED IN THE BLINK OF AN EYE. WE HAD NO WARNING. People that were online on their transfered toons WERE BOOTED OFFLINE.

Now I did sell a few masters, maybe 10 or so. And I couldn't tell you if they are still in game.
Did that pollute the unrest server?? NO, now quit you're whining.



Also another thing that is really annoying me. There is NO SONY WRITEN RULE THAT PEOPLE CAN'T TRANSFER OFF TEST SERVER. IT IS NOT IN THE TOS OR THE EULA. All these people talking like it is a direct violation of internal sony regulations, talking about legal action and employment terminations is absolutely ridiculous.
Just because its not in the gui options doesn't mean anything. It does not imply it is a rule. It just means that its not in the gui options and has never before been done. So get a grip of yourselves please.

Legendboy,
Just because you don't think that it's an issue doesn't mean that it isn't one to us. We don't believe having someone like Kirstie in your guild should enable you to get extra benefits. Simply, there was no code to move you off the test server. The one person pushed to have custom code to write you a transfer to the live servers. Apparently, it disturbed the developers enough to let the information leak. If you don't see the favoritism, you are in denial.
Now, no one is saying that you are at fault. But we are saying that Sony needs to look at it's internal ethics. No one should get special treatement. Do you know what happen the last time that I asked for a favor? I got an automated response telling me tough luck. It should be the same across the board for all players.
No one is saying that Sony can't do something. We just expressing our disgust at their actions.

legendboy wrote:

Please forgive us, if we don't take the word of a known guild of exploiters as sufficient proof that some of the transfered wealth did not stay on server. I myself say your guildmates still logged on over an hour after the announcement was made here, certainly plenty of time to 'gift' wealth to a toon that wouldn't get deleted.

I'm sure if there is nothing to suspect here, then you have no reason to fear an audit done of all transfers done with those copied toons.

You need to except that this copy was an unethical maneuver, and any possible abuse of it is suspect, especially given your guild leaderships past transgressions, and their amazing social graces for the time they were in the unrest limelight.

I personally wont feel satisfied until a GM posts that this has been investigated and cleared or cleaned up as needed. Though the obvious favortism to get you there, probably will prevail in preventing any further abuse from being cleaned up.

as my friend dysis points out, you guys "unrest players" took advantage of our misfortune as well. you saw all of a sudden tons of masters, rare collection items and other stuffs on the broker for prices extremely low in comparison to your own. even on players with an X after there name and after this whole thing broke wide open.
you "unrest" still bought and took advantage of the situation. for all those calling for accounts to be banned and deleted etc... that every single person that bought somthing from us on the broker be deleted and banned, every person that grouped with a copied toon be deleted and banned. and every body that had stuff purchaced from by people who bought and resold stuff from us be banned and deleted.

if you are talking about server corruption then it goes DEEP real DEEP

the best way to remedy this entire situation, ROLL BACK the ENTIRE unrest server to pre copy. its only been about 2-3 weeks since the transfers took place. that would be the "fair" thing for everyone right?

although it hasn't been stated who the movers-and-shakers were that pushed this through, there's at least another two soe people who were part of this guild. click here to see who.

I am not sure who Kristie is but i think your talking about the test QA? Anyways, i was not aware of that person being part of our guild. I never played with her, never heard anybody talk about her, except to say that she was the new test QA and was hired thru a temp agency.(people complaining that she didn't know what she was doing..etc.)

If i may clear a few things up, I probably shouldn't but I a most likely not playing eq2 anymore so here goes:

Lucky was working contract for one of thoes companys that puts out the guide books (it is my understanding he was already playing on test for quite a while before this). He had some special gm powers temporarly. He did make a few mistakes regarding looting some things, was caught, had his account suspended for a week and had his powers taken away.
This was before I was part of UT. This was during the MARA expansion.

Regarding contested eof loot:
Lucky and a group of players were asked by a dev to help do some testing in the castle, they spent many many hours with the dev doing there thing, and were rewarded each member with a chest, random, whatever was in it is what each player got. That is why you saw an assassin wearing healer chain. Nobody had any dev powers or one shotting mayong (well except for the dev that they were testing with)

With my time in UT i never saw any cheating or scamming the system. The only time i would say was kinda weird was in labs. We split vyemm and alzid, killed vyemm. We went in to kill alzid but it seemed that something was bugged because he was healing even though vyemm was dead. We sat there for like 15mins killing prime as we had a dev comming to reset and fix the encounter for us.
Gods honest truth people nothing shaddy happened in the last 18 months + with us. Everything was on the up and up.
If you think that 5 people having one peice of eof contested gear contibuted to our guild raiding success then you obviously know squat about raiding.

Atan@Unrest wrote:

I don't think it is doing anyone a bit of good by painting in such huge sweeping strokes.
I know a few bad apples and all, but let's not lose sight of the fact that we do not know each individual circumstance and leave it at that.
For better or worse, I think the power the devs gave to a member, or members, of the guild were well intentioned. At least that is what I got from reading around. Anyway, just because a member, or members, of that guild took things to extremes, one-shotting Chel Drak for example, does not necessarily mean that everyone is "tainted."
The gear obtained through the "one-shot" process was never intended to be taken off Test. That is the problem. That someone in SOE thought it was a good idea to give someone those powers may or may not really be a problem if it was confined to test. Other members of the guild who may have used the power reasonably, I guess, are not necessarli cheaters or exploiters since they never expected this to happen.
I am not saying everyone is clean, but conversely, I have not seen evidence that they are all dirty either. I think it is a little more complicated that black and white.

Atan@Unrest wrote:

You must have missed my post about o, 25 pages ago saying the exact same thing. I would challange any sony employee a full audit of myself because i will not tolerate being called a cheater or scammer.

"Lucky and a group of players were asked by a dev to help do some testing in the castle, they spent many many hours with the dev doing there thing, and were rewarded each member with a chest, random, whatever was in it is what each player got. That is why you saw an assassin wearing healer chain. Nobody had any dev powers or one shotting mayong (well except for the dev that they were testing with)"

Exactly.

Members of UT had Contest Mob Loot that they didn't gain by killing the mobs.
Thank you for verifying that explicitly.

^ lol I am done here, perfect example of why I give up lol

HaCkHaCkER wrote:

Ahh I see UT on Unrest has now taking a page out of the SOE handbook, lets blame everyone else for what happened. Glad to see you all are on the same page

Nitra

<<< Gives Up

i am going to go back to playing the game, and when we start to rival some one at some point you guys can feel great in the fact that you are second place.
why? because to you it would be first place. anyone better than you can not have possibly gotten there legit.

OVER