I spent a good chunk of last night in what may well have been the best group I have ever been in. It was an all guild group in Rivervale with 5 of us, (guardian, pally, wizzy, necro and my lvl 43 warden). Over the span of about 4 hours, I went from 0.3% into lvl 43 to +25% into lvl 44. Everyone in the group dinged at least once and much good swag was collected by all! There was only one small wrinkle... The wizzy, (who was hitting for between 1 & 1.3 K), kept drawing aggro and since we were working multiple heroic targets, I sometimes found it difficult to keep her alive. In all, I lost her 3 times this way. In each case, I stayed focused on the tanks and never lost either one of them. Each time, I rezzed her as soon as the fight was over and we moved on. And while no one criticized my performance, I can't help but wonder if I could have done a better job. I am well geared so power was not an issue. All of my heals are at adept I or better so it was not a matter of not being able to generate enough healing. I think the problem was that I couldn't shift my focus to her fast enough since she tended to fold up faster than an origami swan as soon as she got the mob's attention. In addition, each time this happened, I was more concerned about losing a tank and so chose to not burn a casting cycle on healing a non-tank. The only alternate stratagy I can think of would have been to toss off a group heal so that it landed on her and the tanks, thus not "wasting" a cycle. This way, I might have kept her alive and both tanks would have been covered whether they were in need or not. Is this the way I should have gone? I look forward to reading the critique from my fellow wardens in this matter. I have learned much from these boards and know that you will give me the straight skinny! Thanks in advance,
When in a group, I often keep the MT targeted at all times and if anyone else gets hurt I use my group heals. I find it better to not have to change targets as much as possible. One downfall is that you will go through your mana quicker with using the group heals, but if you just use it 1 or 2 times in a fight it's not that big of a deal. If you do have to change targets I recommend useing the appropiate F (1-6) keys to target instead of trying to click on a persons name. Every fraction of the second you can save yourself make a big difference. Just my 2cp, hope it helps
The group heals are the way to go when a mage gets aggro. You're rarely, if ever, actually going to be able to keep them alive even with direct heals; if their damage is from more than a one-off hit it's usually better to let them die and learn their lesson, frankly. Your job is to keep the group as a whole alive, and that means keeping the tank alive. When the mage pulls aggro, there's not much you can do about it. If you find yourself needing to heal the mage very often, someone needs to have a talk with the mage.
I don't know if it's a level thing or not, but I can keep a mage up against pretty much everything in PP except for the orange con named. With the amount of stuns some mage classes get, you certainly have enough time to cast your group HoT, but I tend to DH heal mages. Most tanks at level 60 are not going to die if you stop healing them for a few cycles so I find I can afford to just throw up a group HoT and focus all my other heals on the mage. I'm not sure about the lower level tanks though, but yeah the basic rule of thumb is to keep your tank up. No one is going to say anything if you let the mage die, but they certainly will if you let the tank die and the whole group wipes.
I agree with Aeluil on this one, I have played many MMORPG's, and I always play healers and I have seen this happen countless times, you mention the "best group ever" but when I read what happened I immediately thought that if it was the "best group" and the Mage kept pulling aggro the whole group would say tone it down, just because they were doing 1K + damage doesn’t help if they die and then the group sucess rate goes down. 1 - the Mage should know how to survive 2 - what are they doing attacking mobs not called? 3 - this isn’t essential, but I am a root addict and am constantly rooting targets, so that if people draw aggro the tanks have time to get it back, if the Mage has the right distance you can often root by the time the mob even breaks for them, and as long as the Mage doesn’t panic and knows the surroundings they should quickly be able to get safe by taking a couple of steps.... However, if they pulled a mob that the tanks weren’t focussing on the Tank shouldn’t have to break their fight to save them either, if that happened to me id probably just root the target and go through focussing on heals on the others, just re-rooting the target until the tank can engage. 4 - im no Mage, but im assuming they have spells which by level 40 or so they should know will do damage but not draw so much aggro, why aren’t they using those? Your idea of group heal is good but that’s good when you are dealing with a group doing the right things, if one person is deviating constantly it just sucks your power, so it about working on them, if they wise up the group moves easier and they shouldnt die. Lastly, I hate dying, and I like grouping with people that also hate dying, Mage dying 3 times in 4 hours? I would think this would alter their strategy right there, I aim at 0-2 deaths per month, sometimes I get it, and sometimes I don’t, if you group with people that hate dying you quickly see they correct their behaviour when they make mistakes. Message Edited by Isakai on 01-03-2006 09:56 AM
To be fair to the wizard, ripping aggro 3 times in 4 hours is not that bad. Even the most experienced players rip occasionally. It happens. As others have stated, I usually use my group heals when a party member rips. Unless there is a second healer in the group, I keep the MT targetted.
On those occassions when a mage manages to get aggro (and they shouldn't be often, if they are being team players), I find that group heals take way too long to cast. If it is only happening about once every 15 minutes or so (and if they really are trying to manage their aggro well, it shouldn't be happening more frequently than that--unless you have a tank who isn't taunting)--then using Sylvan Touch has been my best solution. If Sylvan Touch is down, I do resort to Sylvan Embrace on occassion. Alternatively, Sylvan Streams (1 second, small direct heal with heal over time) is my best back up. Targeting and retargeting group members is relatively easy if you are using the F1 through F6 keys. It can be accomplished faster than casting a normal group heal--at least, I find it easier. There are still times when mages in my group die, but I find it doesn't happen all that often unless someone isn't doing the job right--i.e. I am not paying attention, the mage keeps getting aggro, or the tank is getting lazy with taunts. Group AOE's are usually the only time I might lose a mage if everyone is managing aggro well...and in those cases, group heals and group regens are obviously the solution since everyone is taking damage. Message Edited by Tuppen on 01-03-2006 04:17 PM
Basically everyone here is right. If a wizzie pulls aggro, he has the ability to root the mob and back off. Giving you time to get a few heals on him. I generally do switch to them as quick as I notice it, fire off small heal, fire off large heal, drop a regen or group regen. Don't shy away from the group regens, they cost more power, but due to our overall efficiency we can cover it. On standard encounters I try not to use my direct heals at all. I drop on a regen, and suppliment with group regen when needed, and occasionally the heals if its not enough. This does two things. This leaves my direct heals (for the most part) available for an emergency, and it also keeps a group regen up about 1/3rd of the time. Not only will this have a good chance at covering them if they get aggro, but will also cover any barrage, or manastone uses. If you are taking on a single target, try targetting it, rather than the tank. This way you will be healing, whoever he is hitting. If aggro switches you are already set to heal the new member, and dropping in a group regen will generally help the original tank come back up to full health. Use your roots too. Your roots are genereally better than the mage roots, and tend to hold longer while damage is being applied. If I feel a member might pull aggro, I toss my root on the target. Since it can't move, it will generally stay focused on those within melee range, unless its a caster as well. Losing a mage that pulls aggro is not uncommon, it happens to most. If you are focussed on what you are doing you can usually act fast enough to prevent it. If you are slow to react to a change in combat beacuse you are not focussed or, you are not comfortable with your UI, you may look to adjust those things first. One thing you can try is to move your group bar, close to your healing hotbar, however you have it set up. You can change targets by clicking on their name in the group health bar, and then apply the appropriate heal. However the appropriate heal may not always be the biggest, nor the fastest. You have to get a sense of how quickly the mob is hitting, and how long you have before it strikes again.
agree..agree..agree.. This said ^...bottom line is you can win an engagement with a dead mage, but you can rarely, if ever, win it with a dead tank or oop healer. If you can't heal said mage quickly..he's a goner
Sorano wrote: I don't know if it's a level thing or not, but I can keep a mage up against pretty much everything in PP except for the orange con named. With the amount of stuns some mage classes get, you certainly have enough time to cast your group HoT, but I tend to DH heal mages. Most tanks at level 60 are not going to die if you stop healing them for a few cycles so I find I can afford to just throw up a group HoT and focus all my other heals on the mage. I'm not sure about the lower level tanks though, but yeah the basic rule of thumb is to keep your tank up. No one is going to say anything if you let the mage die, but they certainly will if you let the tank die and the whole group wipes. Well at 60 we have the tree so it's probably a lot easier for us than at lower levels. You can cast the tree before a tough fight (or when you see adds incoming) and if mages get agro you can cast a quick group heal so they will generally get significant healing over a short period of time without switching targets. If you have the time for a group HoT that's better, but my rule of thumb is when a mage gets agro he won't live long enough to cast a hot.
