A bold idea for EverQuest Next : NO GUILDS

Nah. Guilds and guild halls are awesome.
Guilds don't "seperate" players, they bring players together. They make it easier for like-minded people, or simple friends, to hook up and run around and go places together. Decorating, house items, etc, are some of the best things about this game.
Guild halls are one of the best things about eq2. They don't seperate people, either. Instead, they make it easier for groups of friends to get together. If you don't want to join a guild then fine, you don't need too...Guess what, you get tons of great travel options without one, too (velious painting portals, anyone? Wizard portal quest recently? Sinking sands portals, etc?) On crushbone there's always certain cities that have people all over, too (gorowyn and new halas especially). Freeport may be fairly empty sometimes, but that's not the fault of guilds.
As for meeting people as a new player: my girlfriend started as a complete newbie, never gamed before at all, got into a small guild and made friends right away. Dug right in and helps fill the harvest depot while she levels, lol. If she can do it, as the biggest non-gamer/casual player ever pretty much, anyone can. If you have problems meeting people, getting groups going, etc, then I think one needs to consider that the problem may be you, and not others. Sorry to be harsh, but it has to be said. There's a huge community of non-hardcore non-raid people, I know tons of them on Crushbone. Maybe some other servers are different but I very much doubt it. It's also super easy to get groups, there's usually one channel per server where there's tons of lfg stuff (on crushbone it happens to be 80-89). If you are having issues finding one, start one yourself. You may find a few groups for some zones insisting on having high crit mit, but it's fairly rare. There's also almost always people looking for folks for older zones, or old raid zones, etc...all the doom and gloom about the community is silly.
The EQ2 community is really one of the best things about the game. The myth of the hardcore raiders never doing anything with anything else is just that, a myth, too. You may see a few people who are like "i never group outside the guild", and good for them, their choice to play how they want, dont' try to take that away from them. But I see tons of the hardcore raid guild people on our server running around, grouping with casual folks. *shrug*. In my opinion guild halls and whatnot are one of the perfect things in this game that really bring people together and remove barriers, not create them.
Also: if you want to make an "alliance" of casual players, nothing is stopping you from making a guild that accepts everyone and running it how you propose. Choice is urs.

Nijia@Vox wrote:

If you actually do play on vox I think your choice of server is the problem rather than the mechanics of the guild system.

Amanathia wrote:

As useful as the guildhalls are - and I love our T3 hall in Antonica, with all the amenities - they've destroyed the cities. If you're a new player, you see lots of new people on the isles, get led through some quest lines, learn how to play the game, get to Qeynos or Freeport... and nobody's around. There's a broker, a banker, a crafting area, lots of shops - but no players. So you quit, since you signed up for an MMO. Of course, there are plenty of people around, but they're all in their guildhalls.
If SOE really want to get people back into the cities, they need to get rid of most of the amenities. Of course, the player base would never stand for that, so it won't happen, but you can't have guildhalls with all the amenities and instant travel, and also have cities with large numbers of people in them.

1.) We would just form "guilds" outside of the game.
2.) We would form "cliques" inside the association.
3.) We don't want socialist policies enforced on our game time (we'd buy a different game where we could group together).
4.) We still prob would not want to group with you.
5.) Just becuase 100 people are inthe zone does not mean their is a "community." All those people were busy talking in their own voice chat channels or player made channels and ignoring you anyhow. They could just add a billion non aggro NPC's and you would have the same thing if you wanted to look at other "players" in the zone. On the plus side I could then mindlessly kill those non aggro NPC's hoping for a random fable.
6.) Not bold at all - just regressive and counterproductive imo.

hmm before guild halls, what did i do? stand at the broker or randomly on the efp docks, talking in channels, guild or tells to ppl I know.
with guild halls, what do i do? stand at the broker in my gh talking in channels, guild or tells to ppl I know. nope, no real difference there, just the location of my toon in game. while I'm on alts, I do the same thing, doesn't matter the guild they're tagged in or not, I do the same thing as before. so what makes you think that the loss of guilds in game is going to make the cities & community better? ppl r gonna continue to do the same thing & talk to & group with ppl they know no matter where their toon is or what tag (if any) they have under their toon name.
I personally prefer the organization of a guild rather than joining an alliance of guilds (been there done that, not goin back). too much inner-battle over who's group gets this or that. I'd much rather be a part of a group that everybody knows how to work with each other to get a common goal accomplished than a random group that floats constantly according to what somebody feels like doing today.

Stabb@Unrest_old wrote:

Not sure if your being sarcastic or not, but 24 man raids are just silly. Double that number atleast.

Community is the number one retention tool for players.
Removing community is about the worst idea I've seen put forward.

Lera@Antonia Bayle wrote:

The cities were destroyed anyway other than a bunch of people standing AFK around the broker.

Worst idea ever. Can you imagine the havoc this would cause, if you got rid of Guilds?
You'd have mmo's named, simply, "Wars" and the hotly anticipated upcoming "Wars 2".
You'd have a wildly popular web series called "The". I mean, really. "The"? That's not snappy at all.

On a more serious note, no thank you. I am an elitist snob--I enjoy choosing the people with whom I am going to spend a good chunk of my time. Not only do I enjoy choosing people, I think I enjoy NOT choosing people even more. And I love my guild and the people in it. Not only that--but more importantly, THEY tolerate ME and my wonky soloing ways, my twisted sense of humour, the fact that I disappear from the game for weeks at a time because I have contest deadlines (I edit anime music videos and it's time consuming).
And even more than all that--I hate, HATE, HATE people making decisions on my behalf, or deciding things that are "in my best interest", or taking away my ability to choose.
So, respectfully, no thank you very much.

snipped to make points to certain comments.
Nijia@Vox wrote:

#1 I am a long time player - I do not raid. My guild is not a raiding guild. Some people in my guild who want to raid will join others for raiding. Yes, you can call it an alliance. Many guilds will discuss having raids and members from all guilds involve who wish - will raid and do raid.

#2 Yes, there are plenty of lower level characters. They just don't shout it out in public chat. Yes, they have and do form groups and work through the content. Yes, I know several characters from T-1 through Tier 8 levels. Some are new people to the game, some are characters of players who have been around for a while. In my group there are several lower level characters who group and play various lower level content. I am in one such group that began in the end of May 2010. We are currently level 55 enjoying the challenges of clearing Norrath's dungeons and taking the tourist route.
#3 One doesn't need to remove guilds to enjoy alliances. See my first comment #1. People naturally form groups and gravitate forming friendships with people they like. It's a natural human response. I have 2 very dear friends. I also have a group of people I enjoy being with for different occasions and different things. You might say, we are all part of a guild. I can call any of them for an adventure or I can call more of them for a parteeee (raid).
People prefer to get to know a few. Having to be part of a very large group means you don't know anyone and many people will tend to stay by themselves. But then - they start meeting someone they like and have like intersts. A friendship is formed. More are met they like and it becomes a group of friends. They stay together, adventure together. They end up being a guild even if not in name and are only part of an "alliance" because of needing certain functions of an alliance, however, they are still separated from the alliance.
#4 No one owns an alliance since everyone contributes SP? So there is a tax that is ongoing. Sounds political to me. Get out the vote. Vote for this, Vote for that! Voting Power? The rich who contribute more have control of the VOTE! Oh my, I think me and my friends will ignore all that and continue to do our thang. Hmmmm sounds like separation to me.
#5 I might be wrong, but it sounds to me, you just don't like the idea of someone who owns a guild can leave everyone hanging. Yeah, it's happened to me, too. That can be remedied by allowing passing of the guild to others: a requirement of having x number of board members (accounts) so if the head honcho dies, others have the powa! As for kicking people out, well, some people just don't belong to certain clubs by what ever standards. If you hate horses, but belong to a horse club because your dear friend belongs and you are enjoying the friendships, but constantly hate horses. Why should you belong to the horse club? Leave. You don't want to because you want it your way. Well, lock the door. Find another club to join.
For alliances to survive there needs to be organization, leadership, platforms, rules and regulations. Hmmmmm sounds like a guild to me.
The only difference I see besides calling a group a guild vs alliance is that the ideas for an alliance that you set forth will breed chaotic control, power hunger. no organization, rich rules, separations of smaller groups, takeovers, back room deals, control of votes.
BTW, the definition of Alliance is "A union to promote common interests." SYN include league, coalition, confederacy, federation, faction and yeah, guilds.
You can have an alliance amoung guilds. This is already being done with my guild for those who like to raid on occasion. Guess what - it works nicely.

Actually, several MMO's have had essentially what the OP is talking about, while still retaining some form of player-run guilds. Many free to play MMO's have ranked player 'faction' leaders, and are split into faction based allianced (usually dependant on race)

All this while each faction has -several- guilds just like any other MMO. There's no need to remove them, and as some have said, it would really only be detrimental. Guilds help form community and, more over, knowledge of other peoples play style. This is why PUGS <<<<< Guild groups.

If it wasn't for my guild, I'd have left the game for good years ago. Pass.
Disclosure: Hardly a snob...have you met my guild...?

I dont raid much, as far as casual goes im nearly horizontal.
Guilds are a pretty stress free way of grouping and as most people have said a way that like minded people can group together and have fun.
I have no problem with guilds or guild halls except that EQ2 has no community feel.
The game badly needs a POK like the old EQ, i used to sit there for hours just watching people come and go.
It really felt like there were adventurers out there and sometimes the banter in the chat channel had me falling off my chair.
Thats the only thing this game needs, a central point to bring back the community feel.
just my 2 pence.

The only reason we keep coming back to EQ2 is because we miss our guild and the convenience of the guild hall and its amenities. It's one area in which we find every other game to be lacking, and one of the things SOE got exactly right.

Nope

1. Any relavent News on eq3 Release Date 2. the reason imo that eq2/eq1 is dead is because t1-t8 lack of players they need to invent somthing or somone pass a good idea along to SOE about creating a Money incentive for staying in lower tiers and htey need to prgress imo the game ALOT slower, the start of gaming @ level 50 was literally the best time of palying eq1/eq2 hands down and i think 99% of people will agree doing worlds firsts on a daily is fun and exciting you just cook out cocamany expansions just for quick $ it hurts you in the long run 3. Fu!k WoW. 4.More should be looked into guild/allliance thing maybe a mixture of both, and the guild hall thing about deserting communitys is a great point. maybe you could buy sections of citys themselfs and pay rent and if another guild is willing to pay a higher price...then tough shi!s.

Nijia@Vox wrote:

Guilds are a cornerstone of the genre. Removing the mechanics which govern quilds wouldn't remove them, just make them a huge hassle for guild leaders to maintain. Gaming guilds and clans have existed for as long as there has been internet gaming. Players segregating themselves into cliques is a naturally occuring phenomenon. The lack of guild tools would largely discourage most internet gamers from even considering the game.

I'm surprised the thread is still alive, and pleasantly surprised by the recent comments.
The other day I was in Karnor Castle and there was just one small group of three guildies.
Perhaps nostalgic of the EQ1 days, I boldly shouted in the zone "Anyone need a Dirge?"
Of course, no replies.
And I suppose that's where my beef was and is still, even if I understand some of the reasons people don't want to invite 'strangers', and the guild cohesion... even so... it still annoys the heck out of me when I play a social MMO game, and people stay in their little bubbles.
It's not people's fault, it's a game design problem it seems.
It's not new and you know it.. as someone pointed out... there is no community feel inbetween players at large, not just guilds.
In EQ1 perhaps because of the difficulty, everyone was allied to face the common enemy, which was the harsh and challenging world of Norrath.
In EQ2, it's steam roll mode all the way, and the game mechanics just encourage more and more solo play.
So that's why I focused on the idea of guild, but to be fair it's not guilds per se which cause the lack of grouping with your fellow player in EQ2.
Still I'm glad some people do see the possibility... in Diablo 2 for example I had no guild.. didn't stop me from enjoying the game to hell and back and playing with other *gasp* "random" people every day for two years and more.

Nijia@Vox wrote:

This has nothing to do with guilds and everything to do with EQ2's XP penalty for grouping. If they took you on as a group member, they reduce their XP gain.

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I think that in part the problem is the chat itself. You either set your chat tab up lean and mean, like my main tab which has guild chat, group chat, tells, and little else in it. Or you can have everything in it ....chat channels, loot, npc chatter, etc. Either way you are going to miss a lot. Either it doesn't show up or too much shows up. In my case I probably have my main tab set up to not see shouts.