Ok, I read the stickies, I went to the Fire site, I thumbed through old threads. Furies shouldn't have this CRAZY power issue. My Question: What DOV "gear level" do you have to have to NOT have power issues in easy zones or PQs? Rygorr? X4? My Background: I have a pegged Inq and have a 90/290 Fury in PQ gear for my gf on a 2nd account (couple months old). I thought she was just incompetent so I read up and "took over" as the EQ2 vet to figure out where she was going wrong. My official opinion is that middle geared Furies suck. I see some X4 DOV raid geared Furies over on Crushbone never running out of power during PQs but all the rest of them (various gear levels) are too power hungry. Has any of the diehards that go to fan faire brought this up? It's like the Devs just /premake X4 furies and run around and say how they're balanced. Tinkered manastone, signets, plant food buff, etc. are just gimmicks that no class should be REQUIRED to use to offset poor design. Why haven't you all been given your own version of Inquest? Was there too many furies like there was too many Wizards so they screwed (nerfed) them except for certain spots in the game X4 raids? I hate to say it but non-X4 geared Furies are just unplayable. Is there something I missed? I think I might as well suck it up and pwrlvl a 90/300 mystic for her instead as PQ geared mystics seem to do just fine and don't have power issues (like Inq's don't).
getta mana sprinkles red adorn from the pq. ive parsed it along with subterrean will (red war rune) & it was the highest on the parse next to illy power procs/feeds. sad really. pq adorn gives more power than a war rune 8-( & furies have had power probs for a LONG time. theyre VERY gear/group buff/clickies dependent when it comes to power. it's just the nature of the class.
yes, furies are power hogs. (removed this part, had a lame thought) if you havent done "a strange black rock", go back and do it. the manastone helps, even at level 90. cast animal form on yourself and you will regen your power with every time you damage. (you cannot heal during this time but if you are almost out of or have no power, you cannot heal anyway.) also, if i am in a group with the right class who can buff my power and/or power consumption, then my power doesnt go "poof" in a flash.
Tinkering. Power roots. Animal Form. Two of those will give you at least 50% power back even in PQ gear (root and better manastone) The tinkered manastones are on a base timer of 10 minutes I believe. Old manastone is like 50 seconds, clarity pots two minutes, power root is a lore item, but you can carry multiples around of different tiers. You have the strongest mana tool outside of the Mystic myth clicky (animal form)...Learn to use the tools you have before you complain. Edit: That answer didn't do it for me looking back. These aren't gimmicks. The fury is a truly powerful class if played properly, and the balancing property is power use that can be prohibitive if you suck at using the tools provided. If a fury is in a PQ and pulls any aggro and has the War Rune Velium Cipher, they will never run out of power as long as they stay alive. If they hit animal form and heirophant's grasp as outlined in my guide, they get 15% power back in 2 seconds. If you want a class that is easy mode on power, play a chanter, to be honest. Be smart about when you use abilities. Even I can run out of power, and that's with the above mentioned proc, 7 years of game experience, EM and HM gear from head to toe (3k wisdom and over 35k power solo), and power tricks, if I get any kind of power drain. I figure it's a pretty nice tradeoff. We get great DPS, middle of the pack buffs, and believe it or not, pretty much as raw healing power as a warden (They have no equivalents to hibernate or back into the fray). If you really read my stickied guide, and still can't figure out how to play the fury well enough to not run out of power like it's running through a sieve...I'm not sure what to tell you. I'll trade having to use power items for not having to pay for arrows any day, unlike melee classes...that crap truly sucks. Put another way, if you aren't willing to put the time into 'gimmicks' that can make your life easier like the difference between night and day, you aren't as much the expert eq2 player you presented yourself to be. Everything in a game is a compromise. Maybe we could use some loving in the power department, but it's not really that big a deal when you don't try to do things outside of your capabilities or when not grouped properly. If you run out of power in pick up groups, refuse to solo heal without a troub with energizing ballad or a chanter that isn't asleep at the keyboard. I'll give you a basic run through of what my power usage looks like... 1. Nuke/heal my butt off constantly. Large power drain here because I run infusion 24/7. 2. Porcupine. Huge power drain over time when added to the normal amounts I'm already spending. 3. Oh noes, I am low on mana... Vortex followed by Overclocked Manastone (which potency and crit bonus apply to...) Oh, look at that, I am now back at 80+% power from a single click on my hotbar... And if I'm surrounded by mobs (a la SG) Animal Form zomgwtfbbqsauce + Heirophant's Grasp = 250-450 power PER ENEMY HIT WITH THE AOE THAT HAS AN INFINITE TARGET AMOUNT. Oh, noes, persistent power drain, whatever shall I do...oh, what any other healer does, unless they are a Mystic or Defiler...I pop my second manastone and if need be, a City Signet for power...seriously, you act like you're having to do a whole lot here, when it's something that seriously takes what, 2 seconds of your time between heals? 4. Don't spam heals on a fury...it's pointless. Work on reaction speed and predicting when damage will be coming so you don't waste mana on unneeded heals. This is the most common stupid healing mistake made on a fury as far as never having power. Second behind that is needlessly using AoE nukes when you know you have power issues (i.e. Starnova) 5. Learn when to turn off infusion, as much as it sucks to lose the free dps. It's a massive power drain over time. And if you're sucking at keeping power up, you might as well pretend porcupine doesn't exist in a normal PuG. Use T-shell to help your Tank block damage and to prevent group damage so you don't waste time healing damage you could have prevented...To give you an idea. Solo healing a raid group that assuming all circumstances were similar, I'd have to heal almost as much as two healers, and cure for the same amount. Knowing when to use T-shell means I only roughly do 15-20% more healing on my group than a group with a shaman and cleric. Same for porcupine, to be honest. You can use it as a temp buff to soak physical damage to keep a mage alive and such. For the record, t-shell increases block chance (ae) by 100%, which means that your tank's block chance will skyrocket and help him prevent more hits. It also affects uncontested block in case anyone was wondering. In closing, there's a lot of things you obviously don't know about playing the fury. I don't mind answering questions any time I'm online (everfrost.elhonna). Go back and read through my guide again, and get out of the mindset that you shouldn't have to use power items. That's just pure laziness. The good furies out there didn't get that way by ignoring every tool available to them. Edit 2: I wanted to add. There are extremely few weapons truly suitable for animal form. You want the fastest delay weapon imaginable...I use Shock, from SoF...1.2s delay. Yes, the stats suck. No I don't care. Because the little I lose in stats is acceptable for a flurry of procs that gives me better than 1% power back a second. these are all the same tricks I've used expansion after expansion. Use what's available to you in every way. Mana sprinkles would be huge for your G/f's toon, like AJ said. That's about all I have left to say btw. Good luck, and hopefully I haven't offended you to the point you don't actually use the information I put in my post to help you and your G/f be better at the fury. It's definitely a niche class that not everyone can be stellar at without dedication and situational awareness.
strange black rock is not manastone. stiletto's orders intercepted is. coercive healing also does nothing for power, it should also not be on the druid if u have more than 1 healer. shammys r the first priority for it & clerics r second. they get MUCH more benefit out of it than a druid does. animal form ONLY regens power for MELEE dmg, so everytime u nuke, is not gonna do anything. this's why it's awesome pairing it with hierophant's grasp (1st thing in the wis line in the druid tree. just 1 point into it to get the ca, anymore points in it is useless) on ae encounters. u get power back for each mob u hit by hitting 1 button.
Elhonna@Blackburrow wrote: Anyhow, thanks for all the posters who replied above. Maybe a CLASS BALANCING developer will get the courage to tell the committee that Furies have been really hosed for a long time and are suffering in silence from reading my responses. They're too busy trying to make sure endgame X4 furies get that extra 5CB in the AA lines or the SDA while not realizing that "on the way up" Fury is alot more work to tread equal water.
we've been trying for quite a while now, especially going into sf because all of our power procs were nerfed to oblivion & the increase in power consumption for porcupine but it keeps falling onto deaf ears. pretty awesome that wardens (who never had power issues like us) got the power proc on their myth & we didnt huh?
Arica@Guk wrote: The Employees who run Druids in game say it was made that way to get ppl to play HEALERS and make it so that they wouldn't compete with DPS players with "sensitive" personalities like your average tank and scout. Too many sub were /raging that they weren't "in control" or "on top" when a healer was dps/heal/tanking better back in the day. If you were forced to be a Warden your just a spam heal class with some marginal dps on the side (gone up since DOV). Less scouts died and less /rage quit was the result. So more subs = more money kept. Yeah that makes me suspiscious that this is ON PURPOSE. Warning: rant on eq2 raid policy incoming - Afterall, the SOE pps in game I've rubbed elbows with over the years have told me it's policy that RAIDS must be catered too so they overpower classses to force people to switch to have enough players playing that class to enable raids... Because Subs = Raids. That is the stupidest business plan I've ever heard of. Yah for revolving subs with low loyalty where subs = raids. Some ppl would be here all year round goofing off in the game no matter the raid not raid issue. So they balance COMPETELY around the X4 ENDGAME raid ONLY. All those changes to GU 60 didn't make a night and day difference to the Fury in PQ, but the X4 ppl now can hit 70K instead of 62K or 'whatever' and are "equal" to mystics or whatever so those types of ppl won't whine their e-egos are crushed and they hit /unsub. Illy/Chanter were OP till procs got nerfed (cuz in EOF there wasn't enough of them so they got OP in the 1st place). I feel that right now SOE really wants mystics/defilers up in population and there are now enough Inqs for their "theoretical" population needs which is why we are ignored in the middle (we're fine). Afterall, back in 05' there were too many wiz and furies so they got nerfed while other classes got boosted to "artificially" manage populations. SOE wants 1/24 players playing each class ideally, except during TSO when Necros and SK's were kings to cater to WOW kids. I mean so many wiz ppl are switching to conj now since you get the same DPS with less work behind the keyboard. Plus, I imagine the devs are tired of players playing healing classes that don't want to heal which furies have a infamous reputation for (this power issue and being out of power so much is likely the cause of the black smear). I know when I don't overheal some "sensitive" personality playing a scout I make the Devs jobs I've been with before harder because they have to kiss that person's butt that much harder to keep them. Then they get upset at me since I'm not helping them do their job keep subs. I say if a person is that "kiss my but or I /unsub" let them leave, I spend more LON/SC to make up for their cheap 15/mo for 6 months + all the buttkissing effort on top. But that's not how the policy works or so I have heard.
S_M_I_T_E wrote: actually it couldnt be more wrong. as a high end raider for several yrs, it's COMPLETELY the opposite. there r SOOOO many class imbalances when it comes to raids, that it's insane. & melee healers r actually WAY up on the parse compared to previously. theyre actually equal or better in dps than some caster dps healers. look at all the posts on the boards screaming for utility by wardens or just balance adjustments compared to other classes in raid environments. most of the tweaks that have been occuring in that environment (such as the sta debuff "fixes") r because devs didnt like that their content was being beaten so easily without any type of compliance with running the encounter script. tbh back in sf & dov beta, i know that fiora & me (& most likely several others) were trying to get things fixed for power consumption for furies period. one of the things that we specifically discussed was lower end/non-raiding furies because of the lack of gear to help manage the problem. we were trying to get something fixed (such as feast being a power heal instead of hp, spirit of the bat being a self power proc instead of in-combat power regen, etc) so they wouldnt be having such a difficult time with it. raiders r ignored more than u think when it comes to "fixing" the game. look at the amount of content in each section of patch notes that r catered to heroic, crafting, or solo play as opposed to raid-related content or mechanics. a most recent example is the nerfing of kael because of the crying by non-raiders for being able to do the content. there r actually many more raiders leaving the game because of frustration over lack of bug fixes, class balancing, bland content or boring itemization. when raiders complain, we r told that we r the minority, so they r going to cater to the majority of their member base which is made up on casual non-raiders. so it's not all butt-kissing high end players like u think.
I'm not gonna bother re-posting your response up there, I'll just say this...If as an inq you can rely on just inquest for power, you aren't casting as much as you could be. That is all. Inqs in a group or raid setting that involves power drains suffer just as badly as furies. Especially if the fight involves jousting. You look down on us because to you it's easy-mode to just sit back and heal and have someone else get your power back for you...It's not hard as a fury to keep power up, nor is it an annoyance once you get good at it. It's actually a good feeling to know you've gotten your skills to that point. For the record, with my stats, I get back on average, more than 20k power with an overclocked manastone. Tear (the animal form proc) gives back 450-500 power per melee hit...100% proc rate, plus it does damage. So think about that... I know a pqer doesn't have my one proc for power (velium cipher) but if their stats are even roughly half of what mine are, they can get back over 10k from an overclocked manastone and close to 250 power back per hit of animal form. That's only two things, and a fury not willing to learn to use animal form is setting themselves up for failure pretty much. Assuming you're not raiding, it's even easier on a fury to keep power up, because you don't have to worry much about AoEs... Hit Autumn's Kiss, hit Hibernate, hit your Animal Form macro that has an EXTREMELY FAST DELAY WEAPON attached to it (Look on the broker, it doesn't matter what level the item is, as long as it has a 1.2 delay). You now have between 6-10 seconds to spam melee hits. Unless you have a combat art or two to hit DO NOTHING ELSE WHILE ANIMAL FORM IS RUNNING...You're just interrupting melee hits. Welcome to truly infinite, self sustainable mana. Among comparatively geared healers to myself, I actually have the fewest power issues because there are more and more power drains, and over the years I've learned to manage power better than healers that could just fire and forget their way to full power. That said, I'm usually the next to last healer in raid to run out of power completely (defiler still wins), be it power drain or just a sustained burn or such or having no chanter. Like I said, it takes practice. And yes I will admit it's harder for furies to get good at maintaining power, but once you actually learn it...you'd be surprised what the class is actually capable of. Edit: I helped my stepson build an Inq from the ground up, and have raided with numerous Inqs over the years, grouped with I don't know how many, so I do get a lot of the things about inqs...the ONLY thing I'm jealous of is the myth clicky. Edit 2: Power isn't the issue that devs need look into for furies. It's the fact that 3 other healers can dps as well as we can with more buff utility that annoys me. Yes the spell multi-attack was a nice addition that did a good bit to help on that path, same with the CB to our spells. The only time now that we can keep the position our class sacrifices some utility for (healer dps king) is on fights where healers have to stay ranged., though. I honestly don't mind that other healers can beat me, especially on single target mobs, but losing on an AoE fight is utter bs. that's the only thing compared to other healers that I'm a bit of a sad panda about.
Arica@Guk wrote: Thanks for the non-defensive positive tone to all of your responses. I agree, as a group all you are told you're the minority and are placed on the back burner. One on one at certain times/places in the game I've seen scout after scout and tank after tank rage and have their butts kissed like crazy since 05'. I'm certain not everyone on all servers get that but where I've been over the years the reds have laid it on thick.
Elhonna@Blackburrow wrote: Honestly, my purpose wasn't to troll or make one of the "super furies" defensive about their class but almost every response you have given this thread has walked a close line of telling me of "L2P GTHO." I'm just saying the fury class could benefit from some adjustments to make it more even with the others of the archtype. Arica@ Guk understood completely. I appreciate the positive information you have provided and pointers but getting defensive and inferring I don't know the limits of my main is not "relationship building material." I'm not attacking your identity. Let's see if I can bridge the gap of our misundestanding. In your X4 HM power drain fights the Inqs you're around you see them loose power but in any non-power draining fight an Inq is never out of power. So what I said is true for me, as an Inq in a "non-power drain fight" it is easy mode power while the PQ fury of my GF blows chunks. And for the record, we both know most of the game content it is rare to have a power drain fight. My entire "help me" of this thread was about normal encounters. Arica@Guk obviously understood where I was coming from. I'm not looking "down on" furies. You're the "head fury" that acts most like one of the most active posting "head Inqs" on the forums. That's not a compliment either. Do anything but agree with that fellow and you'll be attacked personally to negate your logic. But that's not what just happened in this thread here is it? You didn't just tell me I didn't know jack about my main and I must suck so my point of Inq > Fury for power isn't true... Arica@Guk obviously feels furies could use some love and so do I.
I've seen Inqs run out power healing while tanking content on my Guardian as well. That is completely beside the point. If you aren't running into power drains in heroic content, you aren't working on the hardest heroic content. Some nasty drains there too. Read back through your purple text responses and you'll see where I actually got offended. I am one of the most experienced furies left in this game, yes, so I suppose you could refer to me as one of the 'fury leads' especially on these official forums. Most of the older and hardcore furies besides AJ and myself stay exclusively on flames. That aside, I run out of patience when I see threads titled as yours is, then a long thread full of complaints about our class which aren't really real issues. The real issues, and the ones AJ is referring to, have nothing to do with power. It has to do with our supposed trade-off for that power usage, dps, being out-stripped by classes that have less of an issue with said power usage. I'm not telling you that you don't know how to play an Inq neccesarily, but I am tell you that you don't know how to play a fury, and coming here complaining how we suck is a far cry from coming here asking how to get better. I take hours out my week, every single week, willingly teaching people new to the class how to play, and have a nearly infiniste patience level for that. What I don't have patience for is someone taking a class that their g/f played, jumping on it for 4 days, then complaining that it's unplayable as it currently is. This back and forth response stuff is getting tiring though. I have not personally attacked you, I simply told you that you didn't know what you're doing as a fury, big difference. The fury power usage thing has been cried about for years. It's not so much that I personally don't recognize it as a problem, I've just adjusted my play style to take that into consideration. On a different 'positive' note. I am just going to say, that with practice, and situaltional awareness, as is posted in the guide I got stickied, and in the comments I tried to give you here, anyone can learn to overcome the negative aspects of playing a fury and learn how truly fun it can be once you work those things into how you play. On any 'non-power drain fight' any fury in halfway decent gear that actually proactively works at managing power will have no issues at all. I'm not saying it's as easy as an Inq, or any other class really, but it's definitely not as big an issue as it is being made out to be on this thread. For the record, I'm not the Super Fury, Arica is... I'm Deepus. (If you've been to flames, you know what I am referring to). Also, I'm not as nice as her. I try to be, but I suppose I just have an abrasive personality and don't waste much time beating around the bush. I'm not out to hurt anyone's feelings, but I'm not one to candy-coat the way I talk to anyone either. The same holds true in my real life situations. So no, none of what I was saying was a personal attack, it's simply the way I'd tell anyone if they came to me with the same tone you took in your original post. The words 'middle-geared furies suck' didn't put me on the fight foot with you, fyi. Also, you assuming your g/f was incompetent may have flavored my words a bit negatively towards you. If you'd have had her post as the relative noob she is, you'd have probably seen the more helpful, less in-your-face me. Take what I said with a grain of salt, but I'll put it like this. Until you've had her level tinkering, and she learns to use Animal Form properly there is no way of comparing our capabilites. On a final note, all the things you're talking about here have been pretty much run into the ground more times than I can count. All of the top end druids that were in Beta this expansion, and some who weren't high end, did everything we could to get power issues on furies fixed, or to give us something more in return than a tiny bit more dps relative to the healers not having any power issues. On every expansion since mythicals were introduced, and even before then, the same issue has reared its ugly head time and again. Edit: Last but not least...I jumped to the Inq forums to see where this other asinine poster was and ran across your post about PQs. Look at the fury as you did PQs. You seemed to have a lot of misconceptions initially and once educated, took a lot less offensive way of presenting what you had to say.
Not really true. While it's ideal to use hierophant grasp with multiple targets to get power quickly, you should be able to gain around 1% power per second on a single target as described in Elhonna's stickied document. Get your fury a fast weapon (Elhonna suggests Shock from Shard of Fear) and make a macro that wields the weapon and casts nature's blade for the attack speed increase. I often only let it run for 20-30 seconds before canceling it because I have sufficient power again. I'm not sure that it's fair to call these tricks gimmicks. Perhaps using roots and such would be. But animal form is an AA we're given. Furies are definitely power hogs. But it doesn't really stop us from performing well. It is not uncommon for a fury to be both the top DPS and the top heal parse in a PUG heroic instance. So what if we're almost out of power when the name goes down?
Rokul wrote: I'm gonna toss out using Essensia, it's a quest reward from the quest lines in Sanctum of Scaleborn. The sword itself has a power proc on it and it seems to make a noticable difference when used with Animal Form, it also has a 1.6 sec delay on it so it's a really fast sword.
