4 mana regen classes, not enough?

There are 6 "tank" classes in the game. There are 6 healing classes in the game. There are 12 classes refered to as DPS. People may argue that the 4 "utility" classes arn't DPS, but that still leaves 8 and from time to time some of those "utility" have been every bit as much DPS as any other.
The 4 "utility" classes are considered so simply because they produce mana regen effects. While all 4 classes also have other useful buffs, those kinds of buffs arn't exclusive to these 4 classes. Indeed some priest make better general buffers, but arn't utility because they don't have the same kind of mana regen effects.
While the number of priests in a raid can be decreased, utility is seen as a constant. Without sufficient power regeneration, most raids fail. The power regeneration is often more important than added healing or DPS. Many times a raid leader would trade either for a second utility class in some or all groups.
So, why are there so few classes that can do power regeneration?
I'm suggesting that 2 other classes get similar power regeneration effects or possibly that power regenration becomes a more common ability but less effective than the current utility in other classes that get power regeneration.
Two more classes would even out that 6 class mix. Introducing it to more classes in smaller amounts will tend to not overballance the classes that do receive the effects, and with enough of them able to stack abilities they might equal up to a single bard or enchanter.
For any class that receives mana regen effect equal to the current utility classes, you might introduce a stance type effect that not only locks them from using other more vaulable stances, but also nerfs their primiary role. This way the current utility classes wouldn't have to be reballanced against the new utility classes that suddenly gained a share of their desirability.
With so much of successful and enjoyable group and raid content depending on a mana regen effect being available it seems that this sort of move would allow more creativity in player grouping.

There's enough already, IMHO, given the availability of power procs.

1) Bards are NOT included in raids for their power regen. The power regen of an enchanter* + each player's base in combat power regen is close enough to cap that bard power regen is of very limited use. Only in certain fights with constant and heavy power draining would I ever expect to see a bard run their regen song. Even in these fights they usually do not.
2) Most raiders have some power proccing equipment; many of these procs being for the group. Some of the healer items in the last expansion were so overpowered you did not need power regen in some groups.
3) Many other classes have the ability to feed power. For example, all mages can. Several (all?) healers have ways to either generate power or reduce power usage. If you want a group to be brought from near empty to near full then ask a mystic to do it.
Bottom line -- Utility classes are NOT utility because of their power regen. They are utility because they buff other players and are not there primarily to heal or tank or DPS.
* Of course you could say 'The power regen of a bard + each player's etc. makes enchanter regen of very limited use' and this would be true. However bards have other useful buffs they can run whereas an enchanter's regen costs nothing and does the job.

Power is mostly a non issue. If I don't have a chanter I might need to cancel 1 or two of my three power draining buffs, but beside this it is not really an issue. Esp for all damage dealing classes there are a gazillion of power procing items.

It might be a bit harder for a healer, if you did not get the good items last expansion and with the power proc nerf for healers with SF, but it is still a lot easier as pre EOF.

I have killed many hard mode encounters without even one supporter in my group. Sure it is easier if you have a chanter and a bard, but you do not need them to kill the mobs.

Bards and enchanters add a whole lot more to the raid than just power regen, if you went through a parse and added up all of the additional DPS provided by their temps and buffs and added it to their personal DPS they would likely destroy everyone else on the parse. Then consider the bard's hate modifiers and coercers coercive healing, hate buffage,PoM, illusionist PoM, time compression, time warp, destructive rampage... they are invaluable far beyond power. All other classes aren't even close in terms of utility.
I keep hearing about all these power procs, but most are available only at end game, as a currently unraiding conji i burn power faster than a bard can replenish effectively and from what i have seen pretty much faster than any other class in general. So i know that i need an enchanter to be effective on long fights, not sure if that is "wrong" but it is admittedly a root of great dependency for me. They could always bump "sacrifice" back up to near where it was in beta in terms of giving power to the group, the heal component was a bit op though.

Encantador wrote:

Here is your shard, grats you get to cast one spell maybe two on a long recast or here you go i just sacrifeced my pet, cast one spell.....wait wait wait ok one more wait wait wait while my pet could have done the same damage as what you just cast but he was stifled.
The abilities have not scaled properly to be effective, but they are there.
Manastones > anything a non-enchanter mage can give.

Allforgrog wrote:

If you need power but can't kill the harder SF mobs try Zarrakon. Should not take to long to kill and has some great power procing gear. Also there is a Symbol of Harakat the Seer, that is OK. Yes bards and chanters have a lot more to offer then power and you can feel the loss of DPS, survivability and agro control without a bard, so a raid without at least 4 bards is really loosing out, but if there is one thing bards are not needed for it is power.

MGB SD at the PoK main bank in 5 mins!!

Allforgrog wrote:

You would be wrong about the damage that enchanters add (it really isn't hard to see how much different proc buffs do on a group or raid level in ACT, and the value of more subtle buffs can be calculated), though victorious concerto would do that for bards on extremely short fights where you're doing around 900k raid dps or so. Some short-buffs of other classes actually far outperform peace of mind/destructive rampage on certain fights, for example.

I'd trade being able to die, stand up and cast manaflow to have full power 3 seconds later any day for more dps. I'll tell you what, I must press like 15 buttons every 10 seconds to peak out at ~12k dps without a pet on my coercer, so much work for such little reward.

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Sounds like a great job for B3ASTLORDS lol

Bard power regen is an absolute joke. The only thing bards can do to help power wise is the troub's ability to regen power for one person. Back in KoS, bard's power regen was on par with the power regen you could get from gear. It hasn't gone up much since then, but the power you get from gear has gone up dramatically.
Even the corruption of elements proc spanks the bard's power regen song ffs.

Get rid of mana regen altogether. No mana regen, no mana requirements at all, just like the raid mobs are now. They can cast forever with no worry about mana. Yeah, that's what I want to see, remove mana and everything related to mana also. Just one less thing I'd have to worry about and whould be one thing less I'd have to read whiny post about.
The OP's desire for more classes getting mana regen sounds fine to me. While you're at it, why does only one class get POTM (a great boost for my DPS), only two classes that get to cast truely useful wards and only two classes that get Selo's. And the list could go on and on.

Step 1: remove power regen cap (or increase it from the < 0.2% of total power per tick it is at now).
Step 2: make all bard and chanter regen buffs conc free, raidwide buffs, on diminishing returns. The more bards/chanters you have, the less power you get from each.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit!
This works for raiding, but does nothing in reguards to grouping. In all honesty, I'd be happy having brawlers get a regen buff to add in to the above - would mean people running instances would ask for a bard/chanter/brawler.

Pervis wrote:

Pervis wrote:

Except for the fact that a lot of people get bard/chanters for buffs moreso than power regen

The game makes the mistake by giving every class almost everything, you are asking to even make that worse.
I feel that the need for certain classes are getting worse over time, that's not a good thing in my opinion.

Ralpmet wrote:

Baby jesus just cried alittle..