>24 man raids

First, I believe I said end game raiding, that means most zones set to farm, Tarinax down etc... (imo)
Second, I disagree, because it can be hard for some of the more casuals to get into a higher tiered raiding guilds here, as most only want 24 hardcore people, who never miss a raid, even some of the lower tiered hardcore guilds only have 30-40 in the guild just in case a few cannot make it one night, but the nights everyone logs in, they could go to a 40 main raid zone.
I have met many players who refuse to join a raiding guild because they cannot just hit one zone a week or two a week or whatever their play times allow. Fielding more people allows for more casual players to get in rotations, say you have 4 brigands who can only make it two times a week, while you have 4 others who can make the other nights in the week, it allows guilds to expand some and like I said allows casuals to hit the raid scene a little more, instead of only having 2 brigands in the guild who can make the raids every night of the week, while the other 6 become bored with the game because they cannot keep raid attendance up so they have to join some lower tiered guild who cannot beat vyemm.
I also never said this was WoW, just comparing what I have experienced and what I know.

No, those 24 member hardcore guilds would just find another 24 hardcore members, they wouldnt let casual players come to raids. Those 50 member casual guild would just find 50 more casual players.

oh, btw raids that become easier with >24 people suck.

Why would hardcore raiders want casual raiders who aren't the same day-in day-out? I know if I was raiding content that was setup for 40-man, I'd want 45-48 people in a guild tops whever everybody is the same(basically) and everybody knows [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] they're doing. I wouldn't want casuals in my hardcore guild, because [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] gearing up people who are barely on. I want a guild that is designed around the content, not having more casual players who could suck because they don't play, not to mention have to teach them everytime they come to an encounter because they don't remember, or if they even know how to play their class very well. More people means more people having to know EXACTLY what to do, not have more room for casuals who aren't on often enough, and have crappy gear because they barely raid.

I didn't get my point across the best I could earlier, lmao, sorry was @ work getting up every few mins when I would have to put results in etc...

Let me clear some things up, I meant if you could do labs DT etc etc with 40 people, it would allow guilds now that arent as deep into progression as we are now, to see deeper progression than they can now, due to their sheer size. I like this because with current drop rates (cept in DT) it would take a guild this size forever to gear people up, so on the 24 main raids etc, they still would be hurting, allowing the more "Uber" people to do the encounters because their people would be geared, have more experience from raiding nightly instead of here and there etc... In short I am trying to say give the little man a chance to see what we all do every night and love in the higher tiered 5+ night a week raiding guilds.

I wouldn't know exactly what to allow larger raids on, I geuss that is up to the devs or what the community woudl allow, not like they would put my ideas into play anyways. With tier 7.5 coming up, maybe they could allow larger raids for stuff that is trivial to most guilds, such as labs, lyceum, HoS. Keep things that give access quests like AoA x2 and x4 @ 24 people.

I will stop now back to my coronas and leveling my troub. Just throwing out ideas I know you won't like any of em pinski but hope I conveyed my thoughts a little better. I don't want to dilute our kind, cause I know I yell at newbs, so I couldn't deal with new people nightly, but for some guilds out there, they just want fun, could be a way to give it to them.

vox was actually pretty easy tbh

Letting more people into a raid makes it more hardcore, not more casual. If you think otherwise, well... lol.

How does letting 40 people raid Vyemm = hardcore? .........................................*blinks*....................

If they let 40 people raid they'd have to design the encounter for 40 people, and then it would become more difficult. Also finding 39 people who want to raid is a lot harder than finding 23.
If you're saying let 40 people do raids designed for 24 people, I don't see the point. How does that appeal to more casual raiders than a x2 zone like roost and crab?

Your sheer stupidity amazes me, why would they EVER let 40 people do a raid deisgned for 24. The idea of a 40 man raid would be on the basis that encounters were designed for 40 people, not somehow make it so people with downs could go back and kill what was designed for 24 people with 40.

Recycling content, for one, and I am willing to bet some people with 40 wouldn't be able to down it. When tier 7.5 comes out you think people will continue to raid crappy boring KoS content?

Next, If you read threads completely before replying, you will notice that this is about casual players. They need something to do, and imo this is where (again makign a WoW reference) WoW beats eq2. Also people can beat the encounter with prolly 16-18 players if they wanted to, but does that mean he needs to be changed to a x3 mob?

if raids will be made to be able to use 24+ people then even the hardcore guilds will be doing so. Then those hard core guilds will find those raids extremely easy and therefore complain to get them increased in difficulty.
End result : raids designed to be beatable only by 40 men armies.
Dont think that hardcore guilds won't use more than 24 players. As I have seen posted in the discussions of SKs MT tanking. Hardcore guilds continuously ask why would those guilds using an SK MT want to short change themselves over using a Guardian MT.

Wow, first let me just say, tier 7.5? What if the expansion after EoF has no level increase, then is our current tier downgraded to tier 7.33? Its all jus t7. If we really need a term, t7b would be better to guard ourselves incase of what might happen in the future.
Then, I dont think you've raided much in WoW. Once your level capped in WoW its raid or quit basically. Raids are mostly catered to the more hardcore players, who can farm the zones for weeks on end just to get a shot at the next raid in the progression. In the terms your talking, WoW loses to eq2. Furthermore, WoW is downsizing their raid forces in their upcoming expansion more towards eq2's method.

Have you ever raided in EQ1? Back then, a full raid consisted of 72 players. Before I quit EQ1 I managed to get to Plane of Time. We never used 72 people on our raids. 40-50 players were the normal number, and tbh I think that system worked perfectly. None of the hardcore guilds on my server ever used 72 players. Some had 40 and some had 60. But the pickup raids managed to get 72 people and managed to beat some of the easier mobs to open up for the next tier. The hardcore guilds could equip their playerbase faster than the casual guilds, and could kill the same encounters with fewer, but more well-equipped, players.

I wouldn't mind seeing raids for 36 or 42 people in EQ2. What I fear is that the coding of EQ2 is not suited for it. I think there would be a constant stream of LDs and the usual 1-4 seconds of lag we see today when a contested pops and 3 guilds rush to get there first.

Applying diminishing returns to raid participation sounds, at the minimum, plausible enough to merit pondering. You can add more people to the raid force, but the downgrade with extra people is that it is harder to gear them to manage the mob's attacks. More deaths means more rezzes, less power and health pool, and less focus. Zerging isn't a guaranteed win, and what came to mind was Russia during WW1... undersupply meant that sometimes they'd have one rifle per 2 or more soldiers... definitely not an effective way of fighting, and it helped force them to make peace with Germany.

The flipside of course is the lack of progression. A support class can be made sufficient for endgame raiding with non-raid gear even, and master spells seem as common as adept 1's.

They will have to up the level cap in the next expansion, you can quote me... Tier 7.5 is a perfect name for it IMO, after that we can give it letters. Back on topic though.

In WoW there is a lot of pickup raiding that the casuals do, I see it all the time when my wife is playing (she has a 60 priest on stormscale). Also, once your level is capped in eq2, it is the exact same thing, raid or quit. Claymore requires raiding, and even then isn't worth finishing the quest IMO. While WoW might be downsizing, they are smart in doing this, because I am sure that they will also still have the 40 man raids, allowing them to cater to both of the main play styles. WoW's problem currently, IMO is it doesn't cater well to the hardcore players, which is why I am here instead of there.


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Moving on... I am glad that some people from EQ1 are speaking up, the larger raids, as they did successfully in EQLive, would allow for the casual players to see what raiding is like. This will allow Sony, again IMO, to have a chance to hook them on what they do best, which is Hardcore content...

I don't know why everyone is arguing over 40 man raids. That will never, ever happen. You should be either arguing over 42 man raids or 36 man raids.

It's more about the fact that "more" people is not more casual.

You'd be wrong, TBC is 25 man period. There are no more 40 man epic raids in WoW. That has been posted all over the official WoW forums.
As for WoW not catering well to hardcore players... HAHAHA. Have you heard of Naxxramas? Its been called "raider heaven" by many WoW guilds. Its hard, it has real linear progression and it took over 2 months to clear I believe.
While both WoW and EQ2 endgame has their own problems, I can't believe you'd say WoW doesn't cater well to hardcore players, at 60 its totally about hardcore players.

Short sightedness is not an excuse for ignorance.

They are getting rid of the 40 man raids that already exist? Geuss I will have to keep up more on the expansions lmao...