[TLE] Will we ever have challenging raid content?

Why would I care that people are playing TLE, when I'm spending 90% of my time on TLE? The content could be as unbalanced as you could imagine, and there could be no class balance, I wouldn't care, and would continue to play on both servers.

As for needing the last word, fairly hilarious attempt at scaring me off with an ad hominem logical fallacy. Are you still upset about me telling you that your DPS was bad in that Poets thread?

I would say that people convince themselves that age has much to do with a game. I say it is the age of the players and resources being taken away from a game that matters. Pixels are pixels. What happens is that you get limited resources with people that really don't care to do anything but throw a bunch of skins and animations into a small chunk on the server and hell with the overland zones and lore. I think more random bosses- that actually pop up in unpredictable places with awesome loot would fix some of the issues on TLE and Live.... Avatars were a good idea but it takes a hell of a raid to drop them...at level. We need some suprises...not the same old ...tiring instances, mercs, and sig quests that you can complete in 5 hrs.

Oh, you're that guy. I was worried for a minute there were 2 people like you. What a relief.

raiding helps balance the server content for everyone, not just raiders. it's part of society.
I always think it's funny when people think raiding is what "ruined" servers. like it's some kind of cult or something.

is that no different than someone doing a PuR every week around the same time?

Without raiders how would you feel safe at night?
Is it not raiders who stopped the threat of Faroth Mal? Is it not raiders who defeated Venekor in Cazic thule and freed the Frogloks? Do you not camp at night peacefully while whatever malice is brewing up in some deep cavern of the world is kept at bay?
You cowards wouldn't be so quick to run you mouths have you seen the peril we have slain for you.

I would guess that if you took your guild over to a live server, started from scratch, then raided until you found challenging content that you would have your answer as to when you will find it here.

Why are people talking about live servers? This is about TLE. Not about any other server. I could not care less about how the live servers are. I am a paying customer and while I could get it all for free on live, I expected TLE raiding to be more than a raid boss tossing wet noodles at players.

And raiders have been giving feed about the lack of challenges since Shattered Lands launched, with only vox being a PITA and terrible loot.

No matter how you look at it, raiders are also a part of the player base.

I'm pretty sure these servers will never have any difficulty raid wise, my guess would be that they want people who didn't get to raid these things back in the day the ability to. I wouldn't expect anything hard until like TSO (when people having to perform a script prevents people from clearing things) resist/hp/dps checks are non existent basically. I would expect VP to be completely pugable and mythicals to be rampant.

Actually makes a lot of sense

Whenever someone uses the "I am a paying customer" line I instantly think of them as just selfish annoying people with nothing of value in their post so I'm going to stop reading it at that part

My guess is that they are just extremely lazy and are doing the bare minimum.

The numbers you throw out are all relative. If 150 Resists at level 60 was equal to 3.5% mitigation, what difference does it make if 500 resists at level 60 equals 3.5% mitigation? Back in DOF I remember having 50% mitigation raid buffed for all resists, easily.

I'll admit the mobs are all too easy, and that's because of the damage WE are doing right now, and the damage they are NOT doing. NPCs besides Darathar at level 50 are a joke when it comes to dealing damage. Most fights with good shamans, the tank won't ever be off of 100% HP, I remember that in EoF too. This isn't exactly a new thing.

Unless they buff the NPCs, it's never going to change. Players doing more damage is easily fixed with NPCs with more HP. However, a longer fight doesn't mean it's any harder. There's just nothing challenging to these fights. There's no trauma cures that if you miss for 1 second, the tank is instantly dead.

How could they make things more difficult without making everything red to us at max level? Is that even difficult, just because you're being resisted and missing? Or is it more difficult if the mobs AEs actually do damage that's going to kill you IF you do not cure? IF you don't have those "epic" resists levels we have now?

Either way, this is a paid beta, as stated by Holly herself, and even after this paid beta, who expects anything to change? Next TLE server will have Hurricane and Open Wounds doing absolutely nothing in DoF also. They could literally make it a permanent attack speed/dps mod buff, or a temp attack speed AND dps mod buff, for former and latter. But will they? Nope, because that would affect the 60 people still playing on live.

got em

Current Live subscriptions 2015 = Less than 5,000
Former Live subscriptions 2004 = Over 50,000

Yeah you're right, less than 10% of the subscriptions at launch, which increased to over 100,000 subscriptions at the peak of EQ2's population, which would be less than 5% of the peak subscriptions ever; is certainly 'still being played'. Just because people played Vanguard until it was shut down doesn't mean there was anything competitive about it. It was people doing the same zones and content day in and day out that they had cleared for the past 6-12 months.

Again, numbers are all relative.

And you're pulling those numbers from where exactly?

Implying subscriptions mean anything when 90% of a games remaining population are casual house decorators that throw hundreds of $$'s a month at cash shop items in a free-to-play MMO.

The business model from 2004 is grossly different from the current one. Beyond that I'd be interested in knowing where you're pulling your numbers, especially since I can't find current sub numbers anywhere, and the 2005 numbers I'm seeing point towards around a quarter of a million, vastly higher than the made up number you pull out of your ***.

Stop being unnecessarily aggressive. Stop derailing threads. Please.

I don't think there is any way to get it back to the way it was. The gear revamp along with well-known strats for each encounter, have made the raids pretty much a cake walk. The reason it was so hard back then is there wasn't any walk-through on wiki and each mob had to be learned with trial and error.
You're asking the team to spend time and resources to revamp all the encounters? Revamp wouldn't work, the ONLY way you're going find a challenge, is with content you have never experienced before and have to learn the encounters. TLE is not that place.

people discuss live servers because they use it as the point of referance for thing you guys who are complaining about 'no challenge' were warned against. they told you that things were gunna be much different and you were prolly going to be disappointed once you took of the nostalgia goggles.

there's a ton of stuff they CAN'T 'fine tune' or 'undo' for TLE without screwing around with live. it's the reason TLE isn't getting holidays. it's why they don't have this or that, and why the 'gear' revamps and such didn't get 'undone'.

you are doing content, that is a decade old, where every strat under the sun is known and can be looked up. none of these mobs have any surprises for you, and there never going to, becuase they can't rewrite the mobs for TLE seperate from Live. really all they can do to make the fights 'harder' is up the HP or the dmg they do.

anyone like Ucala who has raided in the modern game is has developed that quick trigger reaction speed because there are literally fights of 'if this isn't cured/countered RIGHT NOW, we wipe' then raids were it's 'mob does AE dmg. mob hits tank. heal through it.' are going to be nothing. you can do that in your sleep by now.

they can't undo the gear revamp. they aren't going to/can't rescript all the old raid mobs so they aren't all basically tank n spank. is there some stuff they may be able to fix/adjust? sure. but it's nothing like what you guys seem to actually want. and they can't do that without breaking the servers.

hell just flipping on the switch to give you holidays they said on the podcast breaks the TLE servers. can you imagine the quagmire trying to redo all the old raids would be like, and how much THAT would break?

This is also the wrong time to bring an issue like this up, the Devs are working on the biggest server merge/consolidation ever, as well as getting ready to launch a new xpac in less than a month.

I don't know if people remember correctly or not, but even when DoF was live, the only hard fight was DMP, and it was so hard no one could to it in tier. Honestly, going into this I didn't expect much of anything from Vanilla and DoF, I might start caring a little when KoS and EoF are done in a month. However we're going into all of these fights knowing the strats already, the first xpac that might have any real difficulty is going to be SF, most guilds will struggle with fights like Yael and 4-Rune Theer.

What type of gear is your raid wearing to do this content? If your geared out to the max with the best known available current gear then going into these raid zones and complaining they are too easy, that is the same as me gearing out on the live servers with all Avatar gear and going into Molten Pools and complaining its too easy. If you want it to be harder go put some crap treasured gear on then try it, or go do the raid zone they gave you that does have some difficulty for now. If you get too bored there is always the live servers try to do a real raid zone.

Right now the devs are putting out a new expac, moving offices, and merging all of the live servers except the International ones atm. Not to include the fact holidays are coming up with Frostfell the list goes on. Give them till January or so Im sure they will get back to tuning the TLE servers a bit for folks and paying more attention then.

I doubt things are going to be that challenging until EoF and beyond, and even then that's arguable. The itemization changes that came in DoV, along with numerous mechanics changes over the years has rendered older content pretty trivial. The only mob not dead on TLE is Djinn Master, and I suspect the only reason he isn't dead yet is because getting the entire raid the item required for access will probably require multiple visits to PoS. I think after KoS, the difficulty will ramp up somewhat, but probably still far short of what it was when it was current.