Non enchanter 6 box ideas...

Really tired of charming tbh. Want to try something new this time around and want some opinions on a 6 box comp without using an enchanter or charms. Would also like to be able to try harder mobs like phinny and such on my own.

Was thinking War, Clr, Sham, Monk, Monk, Bard...but then I was thinking ill end up wiping myself repeatedly without a real mez.

Mainly looking for ppl that have tried playing without an enchanter.

Clr, 5 Mage... ez

OR

Clr, Brd, 4 mages.

Ench is still usefull outside of charm

War or SK - Shaman - Cleric - bard - monk + whatever 6th slot dps you want, 2nd monk as you say is just fine. Be sure your bard has a macro with mez hotkey ready - you can and will probably do the occasional wipe that a chanter could have saved, but not often enough to be a real issue.

I played that group (with an SK and a few different 6th slot) on Mischief, and it wasnt a huge issue, especially if your tank is raid geared so you can handle multiple hits while bard do their job.

I basically ran this group. It's not the fastest exp grinder set up but it's good for boss stuff. Real mez wasn't super mandatory, monk split pulling is easy enough via social keys, and until later when you get monk and bard super pulling abilities you can have a social to just bard mez anything in slot 3+4 of xtar which is your normal 'oh pulled to much' hotkey.

When you guys are talking about mezzing on bard, like a single mob right? impossible for me to move over to that laptop mez and keep dpsing really

Laptops are in kind of an L shape around me, so gotta spin around to see them, usually just tap my numpads when im using mages.

If you're setting yourself up long term and want a stupid OP group, your base is going to be sk sham bard. This isn't even a debate really. Since you have melee adps just round it off. At that point it won't matter much. That trio will dominate everything.

You can do monk for early era OPness. You can do ranger for more adps eventually (pred buffs, auspice, guardian) or beast (fero paragon fury etc). Rogues and berserkers are OK. They aren't as dominate early on and don't provide as much adps as others.

War/Sk, Monk/zerka, Monk/zerka, cleric, shaman, bard are imho the optimum melee grp options.
Mix it up for all the best auras
Monk drops off as the expacs progress, while zerka ae dps just becomes more and more bonkers.

How long does it take for SK to catch up to warrior in tankiness for the early harder targets?

Also, looking for solutions to teleporting mobs (like in seb), usually I just color fluxd them.

In terms of what? Group tanking? SKs will run laps around warriors. They are the best group tank in the game, hands down. Self healing heavily outweighs mitigation in the group scene and that's where SKs excel. Mitigation only is more important in the raiding scene when overhealing becomes so prominent that SKs self-healing becomes somewhat neutered. They also embarrass warriors from an AE aggro perspective.

Warriors feel and play like they are functionally broken for about 10 expansions. They are simply designed terribly from inception and it took devs many expansions before they got them right. They literally are one of the worst aggro generators in the game and that's one half of the tanking formula (tanking = mitigation + aggro). People talk about rogues being the worst classic class, but I'd seriously argue it's warriors. They are just that bad at doing their intended sole "job." Subpar dps, pitiful aggro, not really any advantage in mitigation (oh wow that ((DI*(2-20))*.95) is really something! /s). Just a terribly designed class in a terribly designed era overall.

Basically any class can out aggro them at will, even with the non classic additions of those vendor augs and that comically underpowered provoke they make available. Even in eras like OOW with BBoB and 2.0 running full aggro augs and spamming aggro, classes like monks can just rip aggro with a a click of a button (speed focus) and put warriors to shame.

It won't be until warriors start getting things like Warlord's Fury, Infused by Rage, Phalanx of Fury, etc that warriors start to feel like a completed class (which by that time warriors are just so fun to play, in my completely bias opinion). Even during that time (SoD-EOK), SKs are studs with 2.0, Mortal Coil, eventually Reaver's Bargain (think this is tbm?), Visage, etc.

Can just mez or stun them with bard if necessary. They won't have AE ones by that time though.

With a full group headed by an SK you shouldn't have any issues handling multiple mobs in camp, especially when coupled with a sham/bard and potentially a monk. Just an OP group for any content in any era.

Not having a chanter for mezz and buffs is absolutely brutal until at least Luclin. I make a bard on a 7th account so I can just sub it in a dps spot and still have the chanter in the group to mezz.

I don't charm with the chanter. Too much going on to deal with it and who cares if I loose out on dps, there is no one else in my group to complain that I'm not charming.

Single target is a good option early on before bards get their AoE mez, I just have a single social key set up for the bard to mez target 3 + 4, doesn't require interacting with that machine and I can hit again every ~15 seconds until the pull is under control. Late game I just hit the aoe mez button on oh pulls, or tap their AA single target 2-3 minute sleep for smaller situations.

In a word, no.

The wording of this post makes it sound like SKs heal themselves without outside help and that is not remotely true. Early expansions, SK self healing in most cases amounts to 2 procs per minute of a self buff and a few casted lifetaps when you can channel them through & have mana. The procs are completely random & insignificant at that stage and the taps are at best a weak spot heal. SKs can hit Unholy Aura once discs are in to mana dump once per half hourish but that's more useful as a burn. Not until 2.0s in OoW & TotC does self healing really even start to be a thing for SKs. Later expansions there is impact but early? Nadda.

Mitigation always matters.

Warrior aggro - even in classic - is now pretty good. It is not on demand but at 50, with two yaks and hate augs, it is not bad like it used to be. Quickly, discs come in to help and the baseline dps over time gets completely broken / OP'd. If a warrior cannot hold aggro after getting a head start on a raid mob by OoW, they're bad.

Warriors are the hands down easiest tank box to run, period, and over time, they are stupid OPd tanking and DPSing. OTOH, hybrids are busy classes, where if you aren't pushing a button, you're doing poorly.

Suggested 6 box group:
1. Warrior, Cleric, Shaman, Bard, Monk, Wizard
2. Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter, Bard, Mage, Wizard

That gives you the best tank, best heals, best slows, best afk bot (bard), best dps, dps + ports, all in easy to box fashion.

Two melee while doable is not easy to be really good at it. (particularly monk and warrior)

I would use a Druid rather than the Wizard (I have a big bias towards Druids)

And depending how long you intend to play on a TLP might change the Warrior with a SK...

Not much early on a SK is unable to tank with the buffs the group adds. And You add harm touch.

IF you are going well past Omens of War...Go ahead and go Warrior, SK is better early imo but later on a warrior is just necessary.

I am not boxing anything that does not include a enchanter...it just adds to much even without charm and charm is worth having for certain.

if you are playing 6 if one is not a bard you are doing it wrong....lol

I know someone who 6 boxes and has a SK and monk when I ask how he runs the monk and SK the answer is always no comment...I think we all know what that means....lol

I find having wireless USB numpads next to my mouse being WAY faster than actually using other PC keyboards. When I trueboxed (before it was relaxed) I'd only really need to touch the laptops when doing full rebuffs, and sometimes when zoneing. Most other stuff you can get into those hotkeys, even if you dont use mouse share software (which you can)

Eh, monks just needs one hotkey for assist and popping 1-2 abilities, then another for short duration buffs. I find boxing melees way easier than casters, even at 90 (current Mischief) melees are easier to box without illegal software, just aggro mob, turn around with team on /follow and hit your assist key(s)

Wireless number pads are the way to go but I find casters 10x easier than melee...

melee was always to position centric...I mostly two or three box now and the third is a bard....so two box with a bonus....lmao

I get what you are saying, but it is really easy to turn the mob onto the melees, and they need much much less downtime than casters and do more damage over time. Usually if I 6box, even my shaman and cleric are meleeing (I dont assist on cleric for harder content, dont want him to be stuck in a 2 second macro if I need a fast heal) But play what you prefer

What wording? Nowhere is that it is implied.

Did you read my initial post about future proofing? Besides, even without healing, the difference between war & sk mitigation is basically a nothingburger in the group game while a huge aggro disparity between the two with the SK winning hands down. No questions asked.

Not really. Self healing > mitigation in group game by a long shot. An SK becomes a secondary healer for himself in pretty short time and the mitigation differences between a war and SK aren't great enough in group game to justify a warrior being superior at all. Please play with better SKs and see for yourself.

Just clicking 2.0 on an SK running 2 hander makes you near invincible then add in all the other ridiculous abilities they have in their arsenal.

Hilariously wrong. Just do basic math and you'll know how inaccurate this is.

Anything is better than the absolute joke it used to be. It's still awful compared to basically every class. Not debatable. You're not max dex in classic so you're not even getting the baseline of 2/1 (main/offhand) procs per minute on your weapons. That leaves a single aggro ability as your sole consistent aggro generator. SKs wipe the floor with warrior aggro.

We only get one line of aggro discs until Roar comes into play. That's in...OOW. We get an AE one in DoN. Spamming those burns through our endurance quicker than a Cybertruck burns through their battery hauling a trailer.

Again, I'm talking about future proofing. By OOW you get relaxed truebox which means an assistant program that's allowed can be used.

An auto attack only warrior in early eras trying to hold aggro against classes actualy doing stuff? Good luck with that.

cleric and sham? Complete overkill unnecessary. You can add literally any other class there to make this group better. If you want extra heals just add a druid so at least you can dps when heals aren't needed (which they won't with a sham).

Lacking so many good buffs which make warrior standing dps better.

I was considering trying some mini bosses and such (if even possible). Thats why I asked about warrior, everyone always says that a disc the warrior has (never played one), makes it easier.

Also on the mez stuff, looking through bard for that now since ive never actually mezzed on a bard before sounds interesting. I dont know exactly how to mez target 3 & 4 with a macro though. Usually I would hard cast playing the enchanter.