What is the chance they actually substantially change Tormax?

They aren't merging Riz because they are still looking at how much of an advantage Riz may have had due to boxing. So I don't see them planning any merge with different rule sets.

Personnally I'd like to see them make a plan for future TLPS. For example

Next year - Non Truebox
Year after - Oakwynd including FTE
Year after- Mischief

Throw in a random ruleset for the 2nd server

That way everyone has their prefered server every few of years and will encourage players to stick with their server longer.

That's just it though, I don't think we really disagree. I don't have a problem with 2-3 boxers. Truebox strikes that lovely balance where yeah, you can box 2-3, but it is annoying and many folks would rather have a real person, they'll box if absolutely needed. That is how boxing should be perceived by the majority of people on the server for the community to be vibrant. It makes it just annoying enough that a good percentage of the population say meh, lemme see if I can find a real person first. Rather than just instantly loading up a solo group and going off to do things on their own.

Truebox gives you the best of both worlds, at the cost that you have to use a second computer. And OOW is a good time to relax it. TBS a good time to get rid of it. By then bonds have formed.

This.

It can happen, but it needs a big outcry / pushback.

This is my major point I guess. There are people in this community that feel this way, and those that would love to just be allowed to box and enjoy the game. I don't know what the split percentage is between these two people, but my hopes and thoughts were when they announced that there would be two servers we would get servers that appeased these two communities. One truebox, and one boxable.

But alas, they seem to think the real 50/50 community split is between mischief-looters and non mischief-looters. Maybe they're right, but I think not.

Problem is there are too many variables that people want to have represented.

FT or no FT
Truebox or no Truebox
FTE or no FTE

They had to pick one, they picked FT and no FT. Adding too many variables to the servers would just drive more people away at this point.

This. Boxers are one of the things that drove players away from the game. There are so many ex players that will not return to a server that enables boxing. It's one of the reasons P99 and Project Quarm are so much more popular than all the other eq servers out there. They are the only ones with a strict no boxing policy.

Great, and that's why there will be a truebox server. But, why won't it be a box server at the same time?

I would assume, after all this time, after they have done boxing servers and seen how they play out, that a boxing sever just isn't what they want EQ to be. At least not at the start when populations are high. They compromised with relaxed truebox in OOW and gone in TBS. That's is probably all the compromise you are likely to get.

But I think the whole point is that this was their opportunity to have a win-win scenario. Release two servers, let the boxers have fun on one server (and buy lots and lots of subs), while you have another server where the game can be "what they want EQ to be". I mean.. I think it's safe to assume Teek will still be riddled with raid boxers and PLers (because that's likely where they'll make the most Krono) that people will continue to complain about, but hey, at least the casual boxers are happy and DBG sells more subs.

/shrug

As of now there are just two guilds recruiting for Tormax. Someone created a Tormax hype thread on the forums and there's some arguing and stuff in it, but ONE other person posted saying they were excited to play on it. The TLP community consensus seems to be there's Teek - the server people are actually excited about and Tormax *that other server that people aren't going to play and that they randomly gave the good name to*. The Tormax memes are tumbleweeds blowing in the streets. It feels like the pushback is there to me

I assume that boxers that want to play the early expansions are no longer a target customer for darkpaw. I have had my accounts canceled for two years now and it seems they will be for another year.
Darkpaw is trying to make us play as they want, I'm sure it's ok for many people but I personally will look for other game (as the last two years).

Two chances SLIM and NONE...

They have a history of doubling down on stupid.

While they are technically correct the two most popular TLP server (since Combine Sleeper) have been Mischief and Aradune...

The issue is not putting other factors in context...

Aradune was a luck of the draw to be in 2020...at the start of a pandemic. IF not for ther pandemic Aradune would not have been so popular.

To top it off, the actual pluses that drew in certain players limited boxing and a GM to enforce it are not going to be on Tormax...Tormax will not do well...but maybe they learn a lesson from it.

Changing Tormax will be caving to the players and that is not a precedent they really want to embrace.

Mischief was the first server since FV to offer Free Trade and it did not have the annoying limitations that FV had. That is a server rule set that will always draw players. Not that they should offer it every year. but if they offered two every year forward and one is free trade it will always be more popular.

The 50/50 split is not Mischief rules/non Mischief rules. Not for this round of tlp's at least. Tons of people missed out on Mischief the first time around and have been itching for a crack at a fresh Mischief for the past three years. Meanwhile interest in standard rulesets has dwindled over the past two years. They released Mischief originally without a standard ruleset alongside it so why not make this just the year of Mischief 2.0? The real biggest divide in the community seems to be truebox vs boxing. Making Tormax a Teek clone with boxing giving boxers a Mischief 2.0 of their own just seems so logical. Both sides will be way happier for it

Tormax should be a reward server similar to Vaniki but not the n-10 level rule. Make it easy and simple. Who cares? This is the 25th anniversary. They should be celebrating and giving out unique items. Beat Nagafen in era? Get a Nagefen metamorph or Negafen ornament of some kind. Kill Vox? Get a 24-hour refresh instant click CH. Trakanon? Clicky poison/disease cure or clicky tap. Stuff like that.

Come on Daybreak. Get creative. Stop rehashing the same rulesets over and over. Soon Random/FT will be like Phinny Clones. Population stretched out over multiple servers leading to smaller and smaller peak populations.

They changed Mangler (increased exp gain), added Thornblade (before launch day), changed Yelinak (adjusted the release schedule) and changed Oakwynd (added character based lockouts and Heirloom) after the initial announcement due to player feedback. Sooo, the precedent is already there, which you would know if you had been here during those eras.

Mischief was not the first FT server since FV. Quarm, and later Brekt were both free trade, they were not popular.

Brekt was ahead of its time, imo...

That being said, I've looked through the posts in this thread and I am confused about one thing in particular... Why it matters if someone else is BiS because they spent kronos versus time earning the gear? I don't think I've ever had an issue where the gear another player has, has affected me in any negative way... In fact, most of the time that increases not only your groups effectiveness, but also can decrease the competition for gear that does drop as they may not even want it or will be more willing to NBG loot.

Not enough demand for a boxer server. Same as why there isn't a pvp server.

Word is FTE will not be used again no matter what. It was to much of a nightmare.

I'm sure that there are more players willing to play a box mischief clone than people looking for a Tormax server as it is now.

Some of us want to play EQ, you have your crazy random free trade nonsense.

The other server having the rules closest to when this game came out 25 years ago is exactly what we want to play, forcing the player base of a 25 year old game to pick between not EQ or still not EQ is likely not the best idea if you want to keep them around