What is the chance they actually substantially change Tormax?

I know they changed the Selos ruleset a bit based on the outrage from the player base, but I really wonder if they have the guts to address the Tormax disaster in an aggressive manner.

I'm talking about a complete change to the ruleset, such as making Tormax an FTE enabled Mischief clone, or such. I think it has to be some variation of the Mischief ruleset as that is what the masses want and any other ruleset just won't compete at all with Teek.

I think it might only be around 10%. What say you?

They changed Mangler, Selos, and Oakwynd due to pushback from players. It is not unheard of, but I doubt what we have seen so far would get the job done.

I despise free trade and the way it completely undermines the game's entire itemization element, so I'm happy that they made a server without free trade. They can do whatever else they want with it, just don't add free trade. Those who like that already have their dream server.

How does free trade undermine the games itemization element? Unless im misunderstanding what you mean, FT has no impact on itemization. I guess you mean it ruins the progression you would normally take to get from start to bis raid gear?

I think it must be clear to them that the Tormax ruleset is unanimously unpopular in its current form. They've tweaked TLP server rulesets after past announcements when the player base has clearly rejected them. So if people continue to communicate that Tormax is doomed/isn't what they want I think there's a decent chance. The precedent's there!

I do not like free-trade. Grouping with people and overpowering the group content more so than we already do makes level grind boring. But I wouldn't say I despise it, I know there is a lot of people that love it and I respect those that like it as long as they respect that I don't.

What about make it a Random loot with no free trade?

Tormax = RL
Teek = RL + FT

Random loot with free trade would be so much more popular than random loot without free trade that Tormax still wouldn't have a healthy population. For it to be viable they need to add an extra variable like random loot and relaxed truebox from the beginning. Or no truebox at all

1) It ruins the satisfaction of getting good gear when everyone can just buy the same in EC/bazaar. Nothing's special about anything. Having great gear means nothing.

2) There's a direct correlation between a player's RL wealth and the power of their character. Since it's effectively impossible to get full BIS within a two-month expansion on a normal server, those who can swing their credit cards with impunity become factually, measurably stronger players on a free trade server. It's pretty much mathematically impossible to compete gear-wise with people who can just buy it all. It's pay-to-win in its purest, most literal form (as much as a PvE game can be pay2win, of course).

3) It renders 90% of the traditionally tradeable loot obsolete. Very few things are worth camping, especially after Classic/Kunark when raid loot starts to completely invalidate all non-raid loot.

4) It vastly elevates the overall gear level of a server's population, since nothing ever leaves the collective item pool. When you get an upgrade, you just sell whatever you were wearing before. By the time you get to Luclin, top-tier Velious gear starts flooding the market at bargain bin prices. This in turn means that any gear that isn't on par with Velious BIS loot is obsolete, which actually invalidates a lot of Luclin's itemization, and the same happens again in PoP where guilds that raid EPs/Time flood the market with VT loot that renders most pre-elemental gear obsolete.

5) There's no permanency to characters when you can just liquidate all your stuff, mainchange, and buy a new set of comparable gear for your new class. Some guilds struggled to stay on course because their rosters were in constant flux as players kept mainchanging on a whim.

Free trade changes far too much about the way EQ is played, and reduces the amount of "content that is worth doing" by a lot. Random loot also trivializes everything by injecting way more loot into the server's collective pool, and into any given guild, than was ever originally intended, so everyone is overgeared and the content becomes a joke.

I don't play on Mischief, but assuming it works the way it sounds, that would be a bad idea. If you can't camp the specific drop you want then your best option would be to sell drops you don't want and buy the ones you do. Otherwise you're just pulling a slot machine lever over and over again hoping for the slim chance that the item you want pops out, sounds terrible.

Horrible idea. It would make target farming items truly terrible.

Just wanted to clarify some things.

1) It may ruin YOUR satisfaction, it does not ruin everyone's satisfaction. ALSO, it adds the satisfaction of getting a rare item, that is potentially not usable by you, that you can then sell to buy an item you want or pay for your sub.

2) It is very easy to get full BIS on most expacs on a normal TLP server.

3) Entirely incorrect. It makes normal group loot DIRT cheap. For example: A full sanctum group visible set is like... 1000p? on mischief. Which is essentially free. Augs are still pretty good value for camping.

4) Again, not really true, as your example is bad. When you get to luclin, people wear their velious gear for weeks as they replace it. They do not replace it all week 1 (unless they are whales, which is an outlier). Also, as stated in point 3, those items arent "obsolete" they just sell for dirt cheap.

5) This is just a lie/embellishment.

Well, Frank said it all, so no need for an actual response from me, lol
But I will comment on this...

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Free trade doesn't even rank in the top 5 of changes they've made that have changed the way eq is played. And while maybe it does reduce some content, it also adds a ton of content, by making otherwise barren zones and camps worth doing.

And I hate to break it to you my man, but eq content is already a joke. The funny thing about random loot is it actually makes alot of raid mobs much harder, due to them being able to dual wield. It really seems like you might not have even played on mischief, because your takes are so far off from what the server was actually like, it's wild.

No, it doesn't. If there was anything worth while in that content, people would've been there. FT or not.

RL without FT is a big problem because you will end up getting no drop items you didn't expect and can't use etc. They really have to go hand in hand since the loot tables are jumbled in RL.

Low

1.) Nothing is special about any EQ loot. It is all easy to get and there are a plethora of guilds out there to match ever raider's playstyle and play time.

2.) It is entirely possible to get full BIS on Mischief style loot. The mobs drop 2-4 times the loot they would normally drop, so it actually plays out to more around the amount of loot you would have gotten if the expansion ran it's full original time. You don't have to pay a dime to be BIS, and most people don't. For the most part you just sell all your old loot as you slowly replace it and use that plat to pick up whatever piece or two the RNG didn't want to give you. It is actually levels the playing field quite nicely.

3.) 90% of the playerbase raids. After classic and Kunark everyone is in raid gear even on a no trade server. No one cares about group loot on either server. This isn't 1999. Everyone can get raid loot.

4.) Most pre-elemental gear was obsolete on Phinny too, no one wanted to waste DKP on minor upgrades when they knew we would be raiding Time and EPs for a literal eon. And really, who cares if the loot is obsolete? Not every piece of loot in the game has to matter.

5.) When someone can't liquidate, swap mains and buy all new stuff you know what they do when they are burnt out on their class? They quit. That's not great for guild rosters either. Those swaps you are talking about, the ability to do them is part of what has kept Mischief alive and thriving longer than any other server.

Random loot and the extra loot associated with that, as I mentioned above, injects exactly the right amount of loot into the economy. The same amount that your guild would have gotten if we had been in these expansions for the 12 months most of them actually ran, rather than 2-3 months. So your actually getting the appropriate amount of loot on Mischief, and far less than you should on literally every other server.

Feel free to hate it if you want to, but these reasons sound like someone who is making assumptions about how a Mischief rules server plays out and not comments on how it actually plays out.

i dont think its likely to change heavily, but it is an absolutely golden opportunity for the devs to jump on the "all classes at launch/heavily asked QoL" train to give an extra boost to Tormax. Maybe throw in extra loot or the heirloom tag and legacy bonuses from Oakwynd. Give people some give and take on what they want to do. Stack benefits to make the players ask "is the random loot and full free trade worth sacrificing ____ for?"

Wecome to Pay to Win - he who buys the most Krono has the best gear.

Combine with AoE PLing and no need to actually play the game.

Than then there is having the gameplay destroyed by the farmers and their bot armies perma-camping anything worth having. The only people enjoying the game are the farming and the people paying them.

Loot is so easy to obtain on Mischief rulesets you don't ever have to pay Krono if you don't want to.

Id never propose full random without free trade. You could arguably do do Partial random, where the base loot is the same as normal, with bonus loot that could be random, and go without Free Trade. Some people would be cool with that. Maybe normal+random bonus+heirloom would be a good compromise.