The Official "We DO want BST/BER regardless of epics and minor quests" thread

Gif BST and BERSERKER plics. tanks for reeding

Reminder that we, the player base, want this 100%

I'll even write your CS ticket responses due to Bst and Ber related things in classic.

If Bst say: Sorry, try again in luclin.

If Ber say: Sorry, try again in god.

ezpz.

we still want this!

No we don't. We the player base don't want dev time spent on the million little things required to do this right. They won't make janky half class introductions that are missing so much core functionality, and even if they did you'd be whining to high heaven until they were fully implemented. People are even admitting that. Get the partial implementaion now, and work on full later.
The devs will then need to pull apart and properly design low level bst/ber and fit them into the old world zones (anything pre gates/luclin). The actual amount of time for this won't be as tiny as some imagine.

We the player base want dev time spent on meaningful new things for everyone, not bad one off tlp ideas that are so obviously presented in bad faith.

If they're unwilling to do adjust simple things like rogues being obsolete, then I doubt we will ever see buttlords or berserkers

I would appreciate having Beastlord available. I realize that a few might consider the class unplayable without the epic and some armor options. I am not one of those.

I think make it clear in the server announcement and they do not need any pop up notifications. If there re later complaints refer to server ruleset.

Give us Beastlords from the start plz!!

Add a popup when selecting beastlord or berserker at character creation stating that not all of their items/spells/abilities will be available until luclin for beastlord or gates of discord for berserker. Having clicked accept they wash their hands of all the unfinishable things for these classes.

Beastlords in classic won't be very strong. Their auto attack dmg is bard level. No fast cast insta dd's. They do benefit from shaman poison dot rework. The pet procs are so much aggro with motm they are almost unusable.

Berserker would be mediocre dps at best. Behind monks obviously. Nothing game breaking for sure.

Way past time these classes started getting added at the start of every TLP.

This is fake news. The AMA clarified it can be turned on with the flip of a switch - no effort required - that is what we want! Devs will NEVER spend time to fit them into old world and they SHOULD NOT. Easy Peasy. Auto delete any and all petitions regarding BST/BER missing spells/skills/armor/quests.

I think persona's will take the sting out of this a little. Previous progression will all have been done.. and you can start collecting gear ahead of a switch, assuming no free trade.

The armors would be ridiculous to not include by merit of the fact that they already exist on the drop tables, but the epic is pretty much invalidated day 1 of the class, and the Totem fights are killed so quickly that only a handful get their epic in-era anyway.

'every single person on live' is a strong argument that does not hold up, as there are people who play on both live and TLP, so you do not have the luxury of making that claim.

As for the workload, you are right that we do not know the exact amount of back-end work that needs to be performed for the functionality of the classes to be moved over. But if we are talking specifically the number of NPCs or items adjusted in their "in-era" table, however that is functioned, we have a pretty solid number.

5 NPCs In Grobb (Guildmasters and spell merchants)
5 NPCs in Oggok (Guildmasters and spell merchants)
5 NPCs in Halas (Guildmasters and spell merchants)
2 NPCs in North Kaladim (Guildmaster and tome merchant)
3 NPCs in Cabilis East (Guildmaster and spell merchant)
2 NPCs in Shar Vahl (guildmaster and tome merchant)
2 NPCs in The Commonlands (disciplines)
2 NPCs in Thurgadin (spawn in Velious for armor quests)
2 NPCs in Kael Drakkal (spawn in Velious for armor quests)
2 NPCs in Skyshrine (spawn in Velious for armor quests)

2 NPCs and 14 item drops in PoFear (a_samhain and a_decrepit_warder)

Is that a lot of work? I don't know, I don't know what is involved in moving a npc to a different era. But we know exactly what is needed for the classes to function at least 90% from the start of classic, without adding anything new that wasn't already placed there by the original teams.

Lets not let your little tiff get in the way... What I am seeing is...
Pros:
People can play their favorite classes earlier
New group/raid comps in classic-velious
No one needs to start over or play catch up in a progression server
Classic, kunark. velious all already have itemized armor sets and for both classes.
Some people have said bsts would be op, some say only ok, some say ber will be awful, some say pretty good. There's only one way to find out!!

Cons:
Could possibly take away from live development? (because randomizing items for mischief or making changes to items and mob resists for vaniki or creating FTE didnt do anything like that...)
No sky quests in classic or epics in kunark (velious for zerkers, luclin for beastlords)

If anything it matters less now than it used to. Can just play a related class then switch via AP once the class you want to play unlocks and swap over most of your gear without any loss of progression. And not that balance is really a consideration in this game, but beastlord would definitely be S-tier in classic. Only thing that might compete would be chanter pets, but beastlord would dominate the solo/pug scene due to their low risk and lack of reliance on other characters.

This is everything I've wanted in a tlp for years. Don't even need to change hate/fear loot as the sets are already there

80% of the server would be Bst and Zerkers lol

But yeah, I would love if we could start in kunark and have Bst unlocked.

A shaman is much stronger than a beastlord in classic. Only thing a bst has going for them is the pet procs. They get the level 24 shaman dot, a 71 dmg dd, a worse slow than shaman and bard level melee damage. Their pets are weaker than mages.
Necro would be way stronger solo/pug due to the popular zones having undead ie lower guk and the hole, undead charm and undead nukes + poison dot = god mode in classic.
Then there are enchanters just being enchanters.
Beastlords would definitely not be s-tier anything in classic.

Beastlords would actually be quite weak Classic - Velious. Their top slow would be level 50 Sha's Lethargy (30%), unless they add level 60 spell Sha's Advantage (50%) to pre-Luclin loot tables but I doubt that will happen. They will also not likely have level 60 Savagery for the same reason. Their level 60 pet Spirit of Khati Sha is level 47 and cons green. The proc buffs the pets get, which should be a big part of their dps, get resisted a ton vs mobs 55+. There will be no AA, so they won't have Paragon of Spirit or Frenzy of Spirit or any free pet heal. With all of the AoE in raids, they would likely be chain healing their pet or letting it die and focusing on their own dps. Beastlords certainly start to get much better in Luclin and PoP.

Honestly beastlords don't start becoming more than fero/savagery bots until like SoD and beyond as far as raiding goes. The pets are weak until they get EM8 or w/e the last SoD focus is. Their dps is terrible. Focused paragon adds a nice little perk in SoF I guess. It takes a long time for bsts to ramp up.

Assuming we had 0 changes outside of enabling city/commonlands spell merchants, we wouldnt see pets above 50 at all, since the only vendor who had the 51+ pets is in Shadowhaven or off random Luclin mobs. Its one of the reasons why in my proposed guidelines for such a change, that at least mentioned a few minor spell changes (a couple pets and Rage Axe, mostly)