Someone explain to me why FTE is so hated, I don't get it.

I encountered zero instances of mobs I wanted being indefinitely kited around. I heard about it a few times on lodi, who spawns multiple times a day. Why are you all so worried about problems that don't exist? Is this all about turtle belts?

Ask to have your open world raid mobs immune from locking and we're good, right?

Lock is around 30 sec to a minute with "just tagging" - seems variable from what I am testing right now, stopwatch isn't getting a consistent number on the first three...

But regardless isn't eternal with just a single tag per your implication.

So, FTE doesn't solve that problem. The botters are still going to sit there and try to get half the mobs. I am talking you at an EXP camp having issues with KSing. Contesting Efreeti Lord is not KSing. Those people are unlikely to engage your exp mobs.

Instead of most dps its FTE but its still FFA and not a camp. FTE doesn't fix anything you highlighted. You might get one or two but you are going to lose most. FTE doesn't create a camp for you - people are still going to sit on and steal named from you. Your logic is off point.

It was only better on Oakwynd because it wasn't a popular server.

That's just wrong.

Nothing 'solves' toxicity.

FTE made things a lot better in that you stand a chance against sweatlord_420 and his 18 mages

Plus he can't train you out of the camp.

THIS ^^^^

Without FTE a bot crew at Efreeti will win every time...anyone else has ZERO CHANCE.

With FTE they can be beaten to first to engage...maybe it is a small chance but it is better than ZERO CHANCE.

That said the delay helps deter the botter...if they remove the delay a bot crew will win every race on an FTE server as well. My issue is not a named mob my issue is zones for lower levels being controlled by high/max level characters which happens for many reasons.

I would say it was done to eliminate kill stealing and training fix was a bonus.

it was called FTE (First to Engage) for a reason. if it was to simply stop trains it would probably been called NTC for (No Training Code)

But I agree it was to reduce petitions and it worked Daybreak has stated so after nearly a year of Oakwynd, they are pleased with the result and it is likely to be on most if not all servers going forward and like /pick and aoc will likely make its way to older servers at some point.

Which is exactly what I said, FTE doesn't reserve camps or named for you. So It wasn't just wrong it was 100% accurate. Reading comprehension on these forums is ruff. There are just alternative methods of griefing/toxic play now. You didn't see it on Oakwynd because there weren't many players.

Example for you - some low levels started griefing the Xygoz line because level 30s or whatever get instant aggro over the 60s. You just can't beat the low level aggro. So we couldn't really fight back so we just cleared all their exp mobs and their group fell apart and they left. So yeah - you can still be toxic and grief in alternate methods.

The big bois are rolling up on the 25th - FTE isn't going to be the solution you think it is. You are going to lose more then ever and have no recourse against them. At least without FTE if someone pushes in on you - you can just train them and wipe em out. You might get yourself a vacation but it is satisfying in the end.

I don't lose sir.

Nothing 'fixes' toxicity and to pretend anything will 100% is wrong.

Actually that is the definition of a kill steal.

If a puller tags a mob and is bringing back to their group and you take it from the FIRST TO ENGAGE you are Kill Stealing.

IF you TAG them you have engaged. engaged is a metric of aggro not damage.

Nope. A kill steal is you are fighting a mob and are actively tanking/debuffing and BOOM a dps comes in and just destroys the mob. That is a kill steal. Taking a pull on a non-engaged mob is in fact not kill stealing. You are relatively new to EQ we get it. PNP was never enforced on pulls but rather mobs you had in your camp and were actively working on. PNP was enforced when guilds were actively fighting a raid target and had it all set and done a little dmg and BOOM a bigger fish comes in and out dpsed back in the day that was a KS.

Pulling / tagging etc - that was all fair play race. GMs didn't get involved.

I played in 1999 - 2007 as a high level raider in server first guilds.


I am not NEW at all...

Kill steal is define as already engaged...

You are trying redefine engaged to damaged and that is just not true and never has been....as stated before engaged is a metric of aggro not damage and YOU KNOW IT.

That isn't correct, pulling the mob is engaging it which means that killing a mob that someone else pulled is kill stealing. This is why mobs lock when they are pulled rather then when people start killing them.

Yes, taking a mob from a camp that you've been actively working for hours is literally the PNP definition of KSing, JFC.

And at the time in question, Oakwynd had 10-12 General channels, (I literally have a screenshot from while I was doing Efreeti that has General11 chat in it sitting here) so about it "not being popular" when we're talking about a time is was nearly having to deal with queues is a TAD out of touch.

And I even recall plenty of times that people "checked in" on the camp on Oakwynd, including the typical people that were bound there - even one where a necro was clearly bound there (and probably 3rd tool scripted, I'd wager) when he respawned in, and immediately cast a half dozen spells on our Freet that had been engaged for a couple seconds already. No idea how many of them would've intended to KS on a normal server, but absolutely ZERO besides obvious fails like the necro were even attempted.

Weird because I remember being a Sr Guide on Veeshan and literally having issues between CR and FoH where such reasoning was used and it ended up in a week-long break for most of the "it's fine to DPS the mob they're kiting" when it was short.

Down the road we did nail it down more specifically when it was an absurd kite time that was intentionally trolly with no intent to engage - but that was AFTER CS warned the kiter to actively engage it after a lengthy time. (Memory serves it was nearing an hour - not anywhere on the scale of seconds per your misinformed P99 take)

There is no such thing as camps in Everquest outside of what players define and it doesn't matter how long you have been camping something as it doesn't entitle you to the spawns.

Who cares , you can try and justify it , try and change meanings anyway you want and it still means nothing .

DBG has defined it as first aggro locks the encounter , there the only opinion that matters.

There is no camps , there is only first to engage the encounter and 1v1 that equates to 50 % even if you want to start talking about instant clicks , ability's or whatever nonsense at the end of the day you either got aggro first or not.

I never hated FTE; I just didn't think it was necessary to implement.

I don't get upset about trains or kill steals. It is all a part of the game for me. I obviously cannot speak for everyone else. Some players absolutely raged about these two issues.

I was waiting in line to camp Lord Bergurgle when a mage KS'd the current player's spawn. They were telling me how they were going to quit the game because they had been camping the mob for eight plus hours. I always made it a rule not to camp any rare spawn for longer than a few hours so I never got too attached to my camp.

Something that I didn't enjoy about FTE was Rathe Mountains. I couldn't get more than a couple of giants per hour in the zone with FTE. A box mage army tagged everything first while a wizard hogged the rest. On Yelinak, I could focus on out damaging a single hill giant because the mage box army was always engaged in killing multiple giants at a time.

I will be playing on the next TLP with FTE because it is really a non-issue for me. I will just adjust my playstyle like I do on every TLP.

People keep talking like FTE was done FOR the players....

It was done to reduce CS tickets and apparently it did.

Players are not going to determine if it is used going forward Daybreak is.

Because a free trade, truebox server with FTE is basically world of warcraft.

No