Someone explain to me why FTE is so hated, I don't get it.

Test is not a thing people care about really, its a test server, hence the name. It wasn't created for people to just play forever.

Wait... so when someone says they are against FTE and brings up legitimate issues, your pro-FTE rebuttal is "they already disabled FTE there to fix that". . . . . . . .

That pretty much concludes the thread.

They disabled it for the exceptions just like they do with other rulesets such as random loot and some loot not being included.

What? So, because there are a handful of encounters that don't work with FTE it should just be removed everywhere? That is not how any of this works. These issues are occurring because they are OW raid mobs. These spawned mobs have been causing issues long before FTE came onto the scene. There is a reason the added the * to spawned mobs.

But the solution is just to remove OW raid mobs from the game entirely. Obviously if something doesn't work for every single mob in the game it shouldn't be in the game. OW raiding causes issues with some mobs, get rid of them all. (This is sarcasm BTW, I don't actually care if they keep OW mobs in or not, though it certainly wouldn't impact me in the slightest if they did remove them all.)

There is fors and against for FTE, would be nice to have a choice to play with or without it on new servers.

No point in arguing amongst ourselves Darkpaw will do what they want anyway.

Should know either way in a month or so. Although I hope we get the ruleset announced in the anniversary post, so I can make a decision to play new TLP or not sooner rather than later.

No, that's like saying before airbags came around, steering wheels were conspiring to smash our faces. Then airbags reduced incidents of face-smashing and thus we discovered the evil, murderous ways of steering wheels. After all, airbags stopped those cruel steering wheels from smashing our faces, and that's evidence that it's what the steering wheels had in mind.

Training used to happen as a matter of course. Anytime anyone pulled more than they could handle, they ran to the zone. Sometimes that meant they trained someone. FTE then made it so that those people did not in fact get trained, because they were not eligible aggro targets for the bypassing mobs. This led to fewer players getting trained. Cause and effect, guys.

Very few trains were ever deliberate. It was nearly always just someone getting overwhelmed and then they happened to run in your direction. The fact that a new mechanic causes you to get trained less does not somehow mean that there has been a significant reduction in intentional training. There has just been a reduction in trains of any kind.

FTE definitely brought a reduction in unintended trains, though. I have two views on that:

1) It removes possibly the very biggest teaching element of the game. Messing up and dying is one thing, but messing up in such a way that it kills others is really bad, and people (since the dawn of Norrathian time) have made sure to tell you if you did that. It was the #1 driver of teaching people to play better and learn what they could or couldn't handle. It can almost be equated to evolution, in a way. If you were so bad at the game that you routinely trained people, you would not be well-liked on the server and/or you were forced to learn to play better.

2) The game was easy enough as it was. Way too easy, honestly. Once you've been around the block and know it all by heart, you can just effortlessly faceroll your way through the entire Classic>PoP natural lifespan of a TLP. Getting trained was the one wildcard where you really had to react and adapt. While intentional training was never kosher and should not take place, incidental ones without ill intent were part of the game, and surviving them has been one of the few remaing "skill-checks" left in the game for those who have otherwise mastered EQ to such an extent that uninterrupted play has frankly become too trivial. It's a thoroughly solved game. Trains were the only exception to that.

For all the same reasons that it's healthy for our real-life society to have rebellious youth movements every generation, it's important that players happen to get trained every so often. Intentional training should be punished. Unintentional training serves as a chance for players to show that they can overcome unexpected upsets to the stagnant and trivial nature of uninterrupted EQ gameplay wherein any veteran is guaranteed automatic success.

Don't be so hysterically afraid of trains. The game is so laughably easy without them that there would never be any evolutionary pressure to make anybody learn to become really good players.

I removed the wall of text because I am specifically addressing the very last sentence in all of that....lol




I love the FTE environment and it has ZERO to do with trains...LMAO

One of the best examples is Rathe Mountain a zone that should be an XP haven to players 27-35 or as high as level 40. ONLY it is filled with max level characters who will kill steal every spawn to chase you out of the zone when you are appropriate level. Some will try and make that about PLAT and it really is not I play a Druid / Enchanter combo every server. A druid can have a blast by themselves kill RED CON Hill Giants for 8 or so levels. Turn the plat off I do not really care (although the plat does make it even better) And without the plat the HIGH level characters would not be there killing everything that pops and stealing from anyone that they can out damage.

FTE FIXES THAT....and that same type scenario in multiple zones including Skyfire Mountains when it is time to farm spells. Burning Woods and Forest Giants another camp that high level players tend to dominate although not as bad as in the past.

I do not have a problem with a high level player wanting to farm loot for plat, but they are not fair about spawns when they can just hit a mob with a single nuke and you are out of the race. FTE FIXES THAT

It is called FTE (First to Engage) because that is what it is trying to address TRAINS are just a bonus factor to FTE.

FTE rewards those who script

100%

script can /tar before the mob even fully renders

Can you?

You will lose. Your reaction time will never beat a .00021 seconds /tar

don't fall for this. It has NOTHING to do with Rathe Mts, which is of fleeting benefit as actual loots sell for much more than you can farm in a day in RM

The push for this only favors those who use directional aids.


Oh and all the other mob types at the hill in RM are PH for each other and 1 player can not despawn all even with software. a 2nd player actualy makes it so both players make more bank per hour if the cooperate on trashies. Send a tell, make a friend and stop entire game changing to net nanny for situational BS

NOBODY wanted the tutotial behavior of, if you swap to next target, it turns autoattack OFF to "protect you"

They did away with that for a reason.


FTE is the same. A knee jerk to a VERY limited set of circumstances that changes the entire flavor of the game, removes some positive social aspects and solves nothing as far as actual griefing and only changes how the griefing will happen. Someone who wants you camp with software will just our FTE you.

A LOT of players run this, don't be a fool.

You have a shot with FTE. If they are scripting 18 mages you got no chance.

FTE> not FTE.

People who are cheating are going to have a big advantage no matter what the mob kill goalpost is. That's why people do it. It's a fully different issue than what's being discussed here imho.

I think you've outed yourself as someone who hasn't actually tried this out on Oakwynd and doesn't understand how current implementation works.

I think it makes sense for named / rare mobs, but regular exp mobs it's annoying. I guess it's nice not seeing people get trained, but besides that, having to wait to engage fresh mobs is annoying. At least block abilities from casting on them instead of triggering a cooldown would be nice upgrade.

Wasn't it changed so that the mobs don't unlock until after they finish spawning meaning that it doesn't matter if you target it before it renders or not?

Lets play devils advocate for a second.... Were getting two servers.... Lets assume oakwynd was a test run for FTE..... Now we have two servers.... Lets also assume both servers are Mischief loot rules / AOCS / Fast Exp / Bonus loot 2-4 corpses per raid boss / named killed (something like this maybe a few more things) One server has FTE One server does not.... Now lets ask the question which server has more players??? That is what will determine if FTE Stays or Goes...

.000021 reaction time

John Force, a HUMAN with an extraordinarily fast reaction time (NHRA champion many tiemes over)
John's record is .022

https://dragillustrated.com/john-force-wins-u-s-nationals-mission-foods-2fast2tasty-challenge/

That's Hundreths vs Ten thousands of a second. You would never beat that. Never. it is physically impossible.

Just one mage with a script will win 100% of the FTE races if they wish to grief you out of a camp and we all know many people run this.

This is foolishness to claim it's anti griefing or wil solve anything. Now they can shut you down without even having to go round up mobs.


<derp>

It's anti-griefing.

Nothing solves the tendency for sweaty basement dwellers to be toxic in the pursuit of profits.
This helps.

To argue otherwise is the foolishness.

You realize this system has been implemented on a server for almost a year and you're talking to people that have actually used it for some time, right?

rendereed full even, the script will still win 100% of races zero contest. It just makes it easier to grief and removes the - hey, thanks for saving my bacon /tell converstion.

In 25 years, I've had waaaaaay more of that, than trains, even countil accidental runner trains like LGuk

This net nanny BC is knee jerk at best and utter folly if anyone believes it's anti grief.

Oh, and training is the ONE thing that disrupts those 24/7 afk players and why they're lobbying so hard for FTE.

Lobbying by using 2 accounts to double post and co like yourself. Hmm what are ya selling mister?

and all that rhetoric.

Rhetoric Triangle = Logos = The truth, Logic.

What are the other 2 sides of the rhetoric triangle and how are they used to counter Logos?

I'll wait as you Google it.


script will win 100% No contest.

period


Go play a day on Zek, all the players are always fully rendered. See how you do vs a scripted rogue.

lol

To claim people don't use scripting is folly, or worse, lying because you know this.

Making an unhinged accusation like this out of nowhere doesn't really help your case here imho.

Just to bring things back on topic - I've dealt with cheaters and AFK bot groups on both FTE and non-FTE servers. FTE is my preference. Neither system is really a help or a hindrance to these things and aggressive anti-cheat enforcement is needed in addition to any other improvements that are made. I do think FTE evens the playing field enough that most people (even cheaters) don't really bother messing with your camp as they aren't going to get those tags often enough to make things worth their while when dealing with a competent/alert group of real people.

My hope (pipe dream!) is that FTE frees up enough CSR resources from having to deal with training / regular player dispute issues that CSR can focus on dealing with rampant cheat program usage which is the elephant in the room and the biggest problem TLPs face at the moment.

lol CSR resources spent on training

lmao

Really?


Scripting is literally 1,000% faster.

It makes it easier to lock down mobs and you know it. Saying otherwise is lying.