A minor but cool request for TLP2024 - All races/classes

I'll remind you that Waring is actually not a dev as much as he thinks that he is.

Nah I get it, I was just hoping there was somewhere I could actually see them say, "na we arent doing that." Because the only definitive thing I have seen is jchan saying ya we can... and I have seen multiple other people say "devs said no" but ive never actually seen that post and im disappointed i missed it since no one has been able to lead me in the direction of it.

Bst/ber have already been added to tons of items and weapons, theres fear sets for both of them that were in tlps until they took them out during aradune, so thats no more work. just feels like you toss in a couple gms and a spell merchant or 2 and let them run wild.

None of that means that they want to introduce race/class combinations that are missing many of the items that they should have or add in classes before the game is ready for them which will just lead to complaints.

Ive spent a good deal of time looking at the issues involving adding the Bst and Ber, and honestly outside of epics and some kind of back-end shenanigans, its not as bad as we'd think.

Planar armor exists for both classes, Kunark armor exists for both classes, Velious already has all major armors for both classes. A lot of BST spells are already on vendors in the home cities or on shaman merchants, and there are several that are on PoSky and Kunark dragon drop tables. Same thing is true with berserker tomes (Badoo Zimlar in Commonlands has almost everything already). Neither of them have classic quest armor like Sol Ro Temple, but neither do Druids. They don't have PoSky quests, but honestly Paladins barely do either. Add BST to Whitened Treant Fists and add BST/BER to the RNG/WAR droppable haste belts and you're 90% there.

Its still work, im not denying that. But its definitely not as catastrophic a change as people have argued before.

Let's get a few misconceptions sorted out.

1. Devs normally don't have final say in anything. They are given orders and told what to implement and they do that. You seriously think devs "want" to implement most of these nonsense gimmicky microtransaction they've developed? Or Broken DX11 upgrades? Or a half-complete UI? No, they are given orders and deadlines and do what they can. The entire premise of your argument of what the "devs wants to introduce or not" is nothing but pure speculative NONSENSE. The devs are not the final adjudicator for what gets put into the game. Stop projecting your comments as if it's the case because it's nothing more than baseless conjecture.

2. They don't want to implement something missing, yet they willingly implement a ton of things unfinished or broken. What's the difference? Mischief loot tables were basically done on the fly. Oakwynd bonuses (a flagship feature) did not work. FTE was patched multiple times after go-live. And these are just some recent TLP examples.

They literally charge people hundreds of dollars for store items that are not fully completed (no animations, armor graphics, etc) and yet you're going to stand there on your pedestal and claim people will complain about these missing things they choose to play for free and not complain about the things they toss money at?? Also, you believe the devs will have the audacity to charge people money for unfinished things yet don't want to implement unfinished things people will willingly choose for free? Do you not see the absurdity in that argument? I hope you do because it's so tone deaf it's almost unbelievable anyone would say it.

3. You can't pick and choose when to implement broken things or not, especially when the broken things they implemented have been far more adverse to the environment than what is being suggested. Either you're fine with broken things or not.

4. Will the complaints outnumber the positives? You have no clue. I have no clue. The "devs" which you pretend to speak on behalf of probably don't know.

5. At the end of the day, this is a business and it's about generating money. If the CEO/CFO/CIO tell the devs to implement All/All from the beginning, they will. I PERSONALLY believe it's an untapped revenue source. I PERSONALLY believe the benefits greatly outweigh the negatives.

6. For once it would be nice to hear what YOU believe/feel instead of regurgitating the same nonsense of what you pretend the devs think. You never back up your claims and are always some weird self-appointed pseudo dev proxy speaker. Stop it.

1. Sure they don't get the final say but they do have a large say when it comes to unlinking content from the expansion it was released in. There has been statements in the past where they have stated that they want beastlords and bersekers to stay linked with the expansions that they came with. Sure it can be overruled but as they have launched several TLP servers in later expansions with those classes unlocked I don't see it as likely.

2. The devs and the leadership are not going to be in favor of releasing things that they know will cause complaints for little gain.

3. Well they did release FTE with the goal of reducing the number of CS tickets and people not being able to do things they would expect would just increase them again.

4. Sure it can come down from above to do it but that I don't see that happening at this point based on what has been stated.

5. What I believe? That there will be issues if they did it and lots of complaints.

You have no idea if they do or don't. Again, conjecture.

Don't make a claim without proof. Provide the quote, otherwise it's...yes, you guessed it, conjecture.

Subjective and no evidence supports that. You have no idea if it creates complaints or not. We do have examples of similar things implemented and I don't see any complaints on those things...do you? Provide evidence of this claim.

We also have many things we knew for a fact would raise complaints and they just went along blindly implementing anyways (because duh they have don't have the final say in what to implement) and guess what? They were unmitigated disasters. So don't say they won't be in favor of releasing things they know will cause complaints. They quite literally already do: DX11, UI, FTE, DoT revamp, nerfs to exping, etc.

FTE was made exclusively to cut down on CS tickets, a pure money saving tactic, even with massive backlash from the community. You really think devs wanted to develop something so radically different than 20+ years of EQ design with virtually no proof if it would cause complaints or not (it did, the boards were carpet bombed with complaints).

I don't even know what you are tried to say here. Even prior to the ridiculous bugs and exploits that destroyed Oakwynd, it was objectively one of the lower population TLPs released. Aradune, Rizlona, and Mischief wiped the floor with Oakwynd. Were the reduction of CS tickets worth the loss of players?

I think DPG fell into the pit trap that many companies do - they see short term benefits (lower CS tickets) and don't account for long term effects (reduction of population which ultimately hurts the entire game/company).

Almost every [bad] implementation released was because of choices made not by devs. I guarantee devs actually want to develop something the players would legitimately enjoy...something like All/All.

Same regurgitated trash. You're gaslighting yourself into believing it while playing dev proxy speaker. I know you're not being sincere. You know you're not. This is just one of those topics you decided to dig your claws in and play captain contrarian for I don't know what reason. It literally has no affect on you, but yet you're always here on this topic trying to piss in everyone's bowl of cereal.

I believe the there will be complaints, there always is. If that stopped them from developing things this game would've shut down a long time ago. Your argument is a complete strawman. You know deep down the amount of praise DPG would get would heavily outweigh the complaints. DPG has taken a lot of flak lately for the absolute dogwater they've let go live recently. A win from the community would go a long way getting trust back on their side.

p.s. it's amazing in your long-winded repeated comments you provide zero examples, proof, evidence, etc. I wonder why . Maybe it's because you're talking out of you know what. Literally every argument you've said can be easily refuted/disproved by just knowing basic EQ history.

Beastlords and Berserkers in Classic would be cool. Just for the classic races that can normally be them, like barbarian, troll, ogre and wood elf beast lords.

Which is why it only happens on 1 server, and Everquest 2.

They have stated multiple times in the past that they don't want to unlink beastlords and berskersrs from their expansions and I am not the only person to point that out. You can keep denying that fact but it can't be denied that they have released both classes at the start of a TLP only when the associated expansion is also unlocked supports this.

Oh man, you went down that rabbit hole again. I didn't expect you of all people to fall into the Waringverse (which is just verbose non-points and stating the very obvious and adding no value at all).

Don't ask him for proof - he doesn't have any. I never have seen him link any proof for anything. He got called out on the 5 min raid timer and all his proof was "I heard" and "I remember differently).

He not only thinks he speaks for Devs, he also thinks he knows a lot about EQ.

Iksars are stupid and don't belong in EQ.

See? I can make random meaningless comments as well.

We ask for things like this, but I left EQ for 13 months, and when I came back my UI still opens my backpacks behind my inventory screen. When I swap to windowed mode it does not click where my cursor is, but rather where it would still be in full screen mode. I cannot even click the Enter World button at character creation on one of my computers. These are the things we need to worry about before the new TLP. A lot of them have minor fixes, I understand, but it should just not even be a problem to begin with. I love EQ and will play the new TLP regardless, but resource management is important for a small MMO like Everquest. I feel your pain though, you can always hope I guess.

For these types of discussions, from my experience its best to actually get into the specifics. A general "this would be nice" is fine, but refuting it is harder when you can point and say "Rage Axe, Head Crush, and Battle Cry of Dravel are the only 51-60 tomes that would actually be needed to be added to Kunark/Velious drop tables. Everything else is already on merchants or isnt high priority."

I don't get why people think it would be so difficult for BST and BER to start in Classic. And who cares if their itemization would be garbage, or they couldn't get all of their tomes, or if they would be over or underpowered. It's 1 single server, and if you have paid even the slightest bit of attention over the past 25 years, class balance in this game is non-existent.

A server like this is meant to be fun, if you come at it trying to be Super Serious Sam then you aren't looking for fun anyway.

All DBG has to do is put a disclaimer on the server announcement page mentioning that Classic/earlier EQ wasn't made with BST or BER in mind - something 99.9999999999% of EQ players already know - and to play them at your own discretion. Same with the ALL/ALL concept. An Ogre Druid/Troll Ranger will have nowhere to train, but does that even matter? Which skills still require a point to be spent in them before they are usable?

"they"

They also said they didn't want an FT TLP ever, but here we are most likely about to get another. Mysterious quotes 5+ years ago which you can't even bother to dig up are as valuable as a lint-flavored lollipop.

Provide the quotes instead of your "trust me, bro" source. Otherwise what you say literally means nothing to me. You repeat the same things over and over. It doesn't hold any value. It's not a "fact" until you actually have something called evidence. If you don't it's just hearsay and in the normal world, hearsay is dismissible.

So, if you're going to add some value to the conversation, please do. Otherwise, just leave it alone. You clearly have some weird obsession with the topic and never actually provide your personal insight/thoughts. You're too busy playing dress up proxy dev.

As thing stand on TLP you need to throw away any character you've made up to that point if you plan to play a zerk/bst. Additionally you're starting from scratch all over again, so your guild is having to carry you while you play catch up.

on a classic progression

Classic 12 Weeks
Ruins of Kunark 12 Weeks
Scars of Velious 12 weeks
Shadows of Luclin 12 weeks
Planes of Power 12 weeks
Legacy of Ykesha 12 weeks
LDON 8 weeks
Gates of Discord 8 weeks

That's a long time to wait if you want to be a zerk.

The simple answer to this that needs no changes is just to have a TSS start.
All Races, All Classes, and the last expansion with a lvl 1 to max progression curve

OK you may have some of the wierd combos like Woodsie Bst still to unlock, but those have a very limited player base, and ultimately can be handled with a race change potion.

Of course then you have the question of what do you do with Yelinak, since it's in TSS from May 2024. Mind you... having 2 servers in the same era, hasn't broken EQ before, so this could be an option.

It has been stated on the forums and in AMA by the devs that they don't want to unlink classes, races and class/race combos from the expansions that they got released in. It doesn't matter how many times people ask for this change as the devs have stated that they want them to remain linked to when they got released.

Post a link. Otherwise stop regurgitating the same hearsay.

And we already know what the devs want most likely isn't getting put into this game as is so stop pretending they are judge, jury, and executioner. They aren't. Far from it, actually.

It's amazing all you do is repeat the same garbage over and over. Do you have another others thoughts besides the ones you believe the devs do? Are you capable of developing your own opinions?

And if you are capable of reading this: Don't reply. I won't be reading it and won't be seeing it.

Trying to find stuff on the everquest forums is almost impossible but as I stated before I am not the only one who has stated that the devs consider classes, races, race/class combinations expansion content tied to the expansion they got released in. When people ask the same things again over the years the response should already be known.

The problem with relying on old archived dev/DB employee opinions is that time changes opinions, and the game changes hands. I would point to Holly's "casuals don't get Nagafen loot" comment from years ago. I'm sure Zajeer, Prathun, and Rytan also had opinions on the idea of class changes, instanced classic raids, and cross-character tradeskill supplies, but in the end things happened anyway.