How to lose the hard to lose players of EQ

I agree with everything you said except that last sentence. The problem for some players is that the first 15 years the game was a sandbox- you could do whatever you wanted (within reason) and have fun. Then the game started to become more linear and guided and incentived to go that route, and some players got mad. Which is fair and just- one could argue that the way the players used to play is still viable, it is just not effective and is going to take longer. Just like it is a decision not to use Overseer for XP- you can still hit 125 without it, but it will take longer to do. (For the record I am not a fan of Overseer, I find it silly, but if someone is going to give me something to help with time I am going to take advantage of it until I no longer need it).

I guess I just have a little more faith in devs than many do. Not saying I think the devs are the best of the best. I am saying they are not the worst of the worst like some make them out to be. I have not always agreed with every decision they made. But I also remember (something a lot of players IMHO forget) when I first started the motto was something to the effect of "You're in our world now". This is not my game, this is their game. They have the control over the game, just like we have the control over our wallets and whether or not we want to continue to play. And we all have a breaking point that will cause us to quit the game- I do, I am sure you do, I am sure everyone does.

The mob XP "issue" has been discussed multiple times over multiple years. I don't think they are going to revert back because of this thread, just like they haven't with the previous 8543 threads that have been created since 2014. Reasons have been speculated and given, it is what it is. If someone wants to quit because of it, they are more than welcome to. People already have, and will continue to do so.

While I don't expect I am going anywhere so, I will admit I am at the point where I buy expansions when I need them. The last time I was max level/max aa was the end of Broken mirror. Most of my time is used farming upgrades to do the missions for the exp and it is a slog, Probably won't need to purchase SOL until next one is out, maybe not even then.

At the very least if they added some exp to the mobs, or 'non-raid' missions I'd be buying the expansions every year.

It seems clear that they want to switch this game to more of a theme-park game rather than a sandbox (not that EQ was ever really a sandbox game).

I suspect it allows them to focus on particular aspects of the game knowing that the vast majority of players are going to follow a specific path through the content. I could understand that.

However, it seems this would only work if the alternate progression was some mind-blowing state of the art content that pulls in the player and allows them to go on a journey throughout the lifetime of the expansion.

What we've ended up with is the worst of both worlds - a style of grinding for exp having been sacrificed for a progression style of play that does very little to draw you in.

I go back to a post I made with a forum colleague earlier in the week. My current levelling plan from 105 is basically;

1. Do the same tasks over and over to 115.
2. Do different tasks /missions over and over to 120.
3. Do even more different tasks / missions over and over to 120.
4. Do Overseer offline for the biggest xp gain.
5. Hold off any real exp increase until certain parts of the year when there is a bonus.

None of the above draws me to the keyboard anymore. I'm just constantly doing 4 for free at the moment until all my chars are 125, then I'll probably quit until something changes.

Where is the sense of adventure, of roaming around the zones and deciding to spend the night in a dark cave, or a clearing in a forest? There is no additional work to be done as the content is already there - it just gets missed by people who play like me who don't want to spend days there for half a level, or progressive players who don't really wander too far out of the tasks / missions.

This is not an attempt to minimize your other points but just to make a note about the quoted point. I do realize it might not make a difference to you. With the highlighted point, I think you mean the 2-level cap for a single source that was implemented in a recent patch. I think this was a terrible change for one-time achievement experience sources, but you're not quite SOL at level 105+.

At level 105, before the patch, a ToV Hero's achievement gave something around 2.4 levels. With the new cap, 0.4 levels, or about 17%, of that experience would be wasted. That would be for the first Hero's achievement. At level 107, ToV Hero's achievement gives something around 1.7 levels. This is under the 2-level cap, so none of the reward should be wasted.

For the ToL Hero's achievements, the reward at level 105 would have been around 2.8 levels, so now nearly 30% of that experience is wasted for the first reward. But the second reward at level 107 should still be around 1.9 levels.

For LS, I don't have the experience numbers for levels below 110. But at level 110+, the rewards are smaller than ToL and larger than ToV. So the pattern will be the same. If you get the achievements starting at level 105, some of the first reward will be wasted, but not the next ones.

First off no offense with my question and this shouldn't be mob exp versus mission exp. That misses the mark. Its more about them constantly fiddling with how we exp when its a core part of the game and they give no explanations or if they do its not on the forums.

What answers to exp being moved were given? Personally I think exp should be on the mobs and keep the mission system. Let folks exp how they want to. But I have never heard why the exp was moved off of mobs. I mean I guess it lets hardcore players blow through leveling and get back to raiding faster but not a lot faster I suspect.

There is option three which me and my group (admittedly only 4) that is ignored. We don't by the new expansion until we need it. Last time any of us were max level max aa was broken mirror. We're going to stay put (TOV) where we are until we finish hunters/quests/missions. I am not even sure we will need this years expansion

I'll just say this: I have had less and less reason to group up with others and kill mobs year after year. It's for multiple reasons, but exp reward pushed off into quests and overseer is a big one. Lack of exp content (AA progression in particular) in recent expansions is another.

That's sad for me because grouping with others and killing mobs together has always been the most fun for me and I feel it has always been the defining core of the EQ gameplay.

DB is obviously fine with folks leveling super fast as Cic says some folks finish all partisans in 8 hours. I am guessing they finish all progression pretty fast too then.

So if they are fine with fast leveling why touch the mob exp at all? It seems to me that it would just flatten out the leveling some. The fast levelers would level fast the rest of us that eventually do the misions might level a little faster and those that like to grind would level at a reasonable rate as the uber levelers would take the fastest approach which was missions.

About the only downside to the above would be that Overseer might suffer some. Thing is overseer is NOT fun. Overseer is the slot machine of the EQ world. Far more mindless then grinding exp but I guess short in duration though its hellish doing it on multiple toons for me (might not be hellish for everyone) even if its a short hellish time frame.

Was Overseer added as a tax on those that like to grind for level exp? If you arent doing all the missions or progression you pretty much have to use overseer to level up. Because leveling up is just the first step for the average player. After that they have to gear up aa up etc.

Maybe overseer was added as a way to pay for something else they developed for EQ? I dont know. I never see answers to any of these things.

And that was there more socialization occurred. On missions folks are busy just getting the mission done. Less chat. Grinding was a time folks were together doing something with time to just talk. Grinding was more social in that respect then knocking off missions. Maybe though they felt grinding was too box friendly and that missions would push folks out of boxing. I dunno.

I guess I now realize one of the things that was making me lose my love for EQ was that I felt they kept pushing me to play in certain ways and that DB thinks they are using carrots but they all look like sticks to me.

They're trying to merge the concepts of modern MMOs and old-school EQ. Modern MMOs are on-rails leveling progression, and the old-school is grouping for everything.

The problem is that it's a complete failure. On rails questing works great for solo progression, but terrible for groups, especially pick-up groups.

No, it was meant to be a mobile app that kept players tied into EQ all throughout the day with MTX tied to it for additional revenue. It's basically a copy of WoW's Mission table.

That makes sense.

So the question comes down to this, at least as far as exp arguments:

Would improving the time versus results of grinding levels ruin or interfere with any of the other methods of exping? Or would it cause any other problems? Or would it just give another option for leveling that has a decent time in versus reward return?

I don't see a downside unless there was some reason other then leveling that caused it to be less rewarding.

Now this means leaving all other leveling exp methods in.

Is this about making experience doing something beside grinding because this reads like a compilation about not getting experience only by grinding

I don't see the downside either, especially with the way they've implemented Personas. For the health of the game, the devs just need to do an honest assessment to compare their philosophy versus actual player experience. Figure out what's the typical gameplay experience, are they moloing in old zones or they grouping in newer ones? Is the group full or is the group boxed?

I think we'd both agree that grinding kills would be the most common, and easiest to set-up and socialize. It's really easy to integrate a wide variety of players, while questing requires more work and communication. Missions would be easy too, but the lockout timers make that not as easy to facilitate.

It seems to have turned into that. That was not my intention as my post was spurred about reducing exp from missions. But the grind exp is still a sore point for folks years later.

My concern is that Live servers are becoming less and less fun for returning players.

Nerfing the max exp on missions. Its bad enough that returning folks or the rare new player who comes to Live has to solo a lot and to make that solo or moling worse by nerfing exp on missions sucks. These folks might not be able to do all missions either not getting groups or not able to box them. So they are noiw they get even less exp from the missions they can do and are stuck using overseer to level up. Sure they can grind but it wont do much.

At the beginning I said putting all the leveling exp on missions was going to be bad for returning players. It's even worse when DB goes back and nerfs that exp UNLESS they make grinding more rewarding. Personally I would leave mission exp as it is and increase the ginding return for effort. But they keep making returning players suffer. Maybe they are trying to get all returning folks on TLPs... I dunno.

And just to remind folks its not just

A) going to old zones to level
or
B) Doing misions to level
C) grinding away in the new zones sans missions.
D) a mix of all

I think I only did an old zone once in leveling through grinding and it was Gribbles I think but that scaled anyway. I always preferred grinding levels while gearing up so I almost always do it in current expansion zones.

I do get folks using older content for moling or just easy going leveling.

Is your issue XP for the returning player, or XP from 121-125, or both?

I have some ideas on the former, not the latter...

Wouldn't a returning player also level in the 121-125 range? The topics aren't exclusive to one another. The solution for the latter is simple: Increase the per kill exp. Done. You, nor anyone, has provided a viable reason why grind exp vs questing exp cannot be interchangeable.

On BB I've seen quite a few mounts, larger number of ornaments, a couple illusions. But also I thought they already sold out of the in person ones. My observations and rumors I have heard, nothing concrete.

Nah, they're still for sale.