Encounter Locking in 2024

You can't use the argument that people who dont want FTE are the griefers who want to train people and then use the argument that "tHeRe ArE nO CaMpS" to support FTE. I will never take anything you ever have to say seriously from this moment onward. Innocent people are not getting trained, people talking like it's such a big issue, it's not. However, with the logic you just tried to unravel on that previous post, MAYBE YOU are having a problem with trains, that wouldn't be surprising in the least.

I guess I didn't realize that you are the arbiter who decides who is a bot and who is not. Like you can look at a mage and know the difference.
So it's guilt free-griefing as long as you say whoever you're cherry picking from a bot. Good argument. Except is does no value to the argument of actual players griefing other players. Whether you want to believe it or not, all the characters in the game have players behind them.

I guess I didn't realize it is hard for some of you to recognize obvious bot crews - Apologies.
No one looks at a char and decides - you are just grasping here.

We have had well known cases of bot crews 24x7 camping nameds (unattended) on Oakwynd (and previous TLPs).

Read the post you cutely summarized - he referenced bot crew. Read mine, it said bot crew.

No one is talking about greifing "actual" players.

All the characters in the game have players behind them all the time? Where are you now, 1999? If you have not seen or able to identify bot crews by now, congrats!

If you play on the 25th TLP let me know - I will show you the known bot spots during the first few expansions. You can amuse yourself by watching their scripted , 100% precise for hours movements.

I'll walk it back a little I guess, camps absolutely exist as a social agreement between players and 90%+ of players respect them most of the time, but when there's a disagreement or a toxic player, "camps" are not an enforceable game rule. There are two options: DPS race and FTE, which is the whole premise of the discussion.

"There are no camps" is not a pro or anti-FTE argument, its just an acknowledgement that the game "engine" can't enforce camps.

so yeah, sorry, i'm not some guy walking into any camp I want middle fingers extended shouting "FTE, suck it nerds." and now you're powerless to "do anything about it" (i.e. train me) because FTE has enabled me to be a mega-griefer. that player will be toxic under any ruleset, and you're just assuming you can beat them at DPS but not at FTE.

I find the vast majority of times people think players are automating, they are not. People who actually cheat to the botting extreme are not incredibly common outside maybe server launch.

there's a few people saying they are now unable to combat the evil bot crews due to FTE taking away their ability to "deal with them" and you saying the average player is inherently bad at identifying bots.

how do those two fit together?

You make a fair point. In my, admittedly limited knowledge...

Training someone for any reason is forbidden. There are plenty of stories of people getting suspended for trying to be the self appointed vigilantes.

On the other hand maybe some people don't realize they can get in trouble for trying to deal with cheaters.

All I can say is. In all my years of EQ I was trained once that was clearly intentional. I left and came back later.

I have not and would never train anyone intentionally.

Let the company handle cheaters, or not.

That's not one of my arguments against FTE. I dont really try to "deal" with Botters in any way. I rarely see anyone actually automating and the few times I have, I just report them.

I can say the population was strong before Luclin hit and players learned the Legacy XP was broken for AA...

Did some people not chose to roll on Oakwynd because of FTE probably...but it did not hurt the population....Classic and Kunark was packed...lost a few with Veliuos seems to always happen, where it parts ways from other servers of the past is never seen the fall off at Luclin like Oakwynd but again that was about the Legacy XP not working on AA and then a week later the tradeskill depot issue hit.

I was able to consistently beat bot crews to the engagement of a target 9/10 times , anyone that saying there unable to lock a target first vs automated bots or unable to compete is flat out lying.

Omit FTE from OW raid targets is fine....adding friends list is a NO...

You want a camp add someone in the group at the camp you want to take to your friend list and you gave yourself an automatic bypass of FTE when you want it.

I think you misunderstand, me and my friend list would lock each other out. It would not allow me to KS anyone else. FTE would remain the same except I would not have to spam /yell to level friends or alts. It would not affect you at all.

Or a special list, or fellowship list. Just someway that two consenting people could exempt themselves, not anyone else.

It just means you went against bad bot crews, nothing else.

No , the delay on spawn is a issue for automation ... This was vs multiple bot crews at various camps , I think there just mad there unable to out dps for a ks if we are being honest.

You dont have to out dps anymore you can just tag it first, kite it around if you need to.

Yep FTE evens the playing field where a solo average player can compete against an RMT box army. This is exactly what others have been saying and DPG also knows this.

Pretty sure the original intent in the game was first to tag has the mob, attacking a mob already engaged was always kill stealing. I personally always observed a camp and would leave it to the group or person there before me...as I wanted others to recognize me when I am at a specific "camp" . While in the end the rule was there are no camps. Play Nice meant recognize an occupied spawn.

FTE enforces the actual rule of first to engage...IF someone else is engaging first then my question is WHY are you letting them engage before you?

No where ever in the history of EQ was it stated that the original intent was whoever tags it first. That's wild.

Actually YES it was.....it was first to engage....and if you took the mob that was already engaged it was called a kill steal. It is where the term KS came from.