Someone explain to me why FTE is so hated, I don't get it.

Indeed, life kicked my butt so I wasn't active after Kunark while I acclimated to the life changes the MiL becoming indigent would cause, but that was my experience in the first few months.

Which if anything to me reinforces tweaks to improve it and refine it into something close to perfect rather than throwing hands up in surrender.

In fact TBH the naysayers are giving me strong "pick zones and AOCs will ruin EQ" vibes.. and history already spoke on that, and both did need occasional refinements but were such a great success they're part of Live now. (After more than one year of refinement before the predictable naysayer argument)

Let's just finish this up shall we?

I used to think there may be some condition that renders a person literally incapable of admitting when they are wrong.

After looking it up on the internet, it's not some disease, but the reason lines up with what I always thought about certain other people that exhibit the same behavior.

We'll see if that ends up uncomfortable enough.

In the end it's not even worth engaging them.

I should have stayed out of it.

You've come to this discussion with a puritanical view of only one method being correct, rather than fostering discussion to elucidate how it remedy achieve an ideal median.

If you have been here a while you will remember the "impossibility" of raid instancing old raids happening, then how it would destroy EQ, as well as other puritanical straw men.

But yet now any server without would be an obvious failure

People should know by now that refinement often removes doubt in the long term.

Could be remedied, stupid phone keyboard makes proper editing before posting a chore

Perhaps I picked the wrong person to respond to, mobile version of the forum sucks, if so I apologize

To be fair, I have been saying this thread doesn't need to be here.

I agree discussion should be had and not restricted. In my opinion this actual topic has been discussed sufficiently. But I admit that is only MY opinion.

I think seeing how it keeps so easily sliding off topic for pages on end is an indication of that. Again only my opinion.

I have already said, the devs are going to do what they do based on any number of metrics, and the decision for the fate of FTE has likely already been decided. In my opinion this thread serves no purpose but foster argument, from the very title, through the first page of posts.

There are already servers that have no FTE and a server that does have it. Both camps should be happy right now. That is sort of my little conception of the matter. Perhaps I'm missing a number of things.

Also no worries about the cell phone version. It drives me crazy and I had to immediately edit several myself, even when trying to check the spell correction.

To lighten the mood on the discussion of arguments, click the link in my sig for a good old Monty Python take on it.

The devs could solve this by at least telling us if they plan to have it on every future TLP, my hunch is they do. But at least if they told us, we could direct our anger toward them, instead of bickering with the FTE crowd. That solves nothing, and only makes the eventual release more toxic.

If they open up about the plans going forward, we can have our moment of joy or rage, plan whether or not we intend to play the next TLP's. and cease the bickering. At this point the folks who don't want FTE are only continuing this because we are trying to get the developers attention to our concerns and fears for the game. If they don't care, they could be kind enough to tell us to either suck it up or find a different game.

I am pretty sure FTE is here to stay and will be on every TLP going forward.

You won't get any communication on it either. I mean,, they sat on a game breaking bug for a whole week despite the forum posts, discord comments etc., and posted an "update" only after a website published an article on it (I am sure that is a coincidence !)

These thread are just thinly disguised baits really and we old cantankerous EQers always take it

JChan's interview stopped short of declaring that FTE will be a permanent fixture of TLPs going forward (like AOCs) but at launch Oakwynd was mentioned as a test case for FTE as an option for all servers going forward (and IIRC they were considering applying it to existing servers as well) and said in her most recent interview with Fading that they were very pleased with the results so far.

If FTE isn't on all TLPs going forward I would be surprised.

They also said before Oakwynd launch that FTE was only really needed for the early game.

"Early game" is quite a ways into a TLP... GoD at the earliest and even then I'd argue not really the point that she means (where you can do reasonable content constantly w/o competition if you care to - DoDH or CotF are the times I'd expect they were referencing - 1.5+ years into a server)

What? Almost all tradeable loot with real value comes from soloable mobs. There's a tiny few exceptions in PoP with ornate molds (the 20% of them that are worth real money), but by and large, the era of valuable tradeable dungeon loot spans from classic through Kunark in particular, and a few bits of Velious. All of that is soloable. It's even more soloable if you roll up to a group that has already been clearing the area for a while, meaning you don't have to worry about adds, and can just start spamming a hotkey to contest them on the spawn. Then, if you don't get it, you lost nothing but a little bit of time and go on your merry way, as opposed to the past when then only way to realistically KS a group was to bring a whole boxed crew of your own, and then you also spent a lot of mana trying, which meant failure was costly in terms of your time.

Given the fact that nobody can interfere once you have the tag, there's no need for "infinite durability and DPS." You just need enough to kill the one mob that you stole from them, and very nearly all mobs that drop valuable tradeable loot are soloable by several classes. Once you have the tag, you have all the time in the world to kill the mob in the safest and most efficient manner you want, unlike pre-FTE when it required a frantic DPS race that only a quarter of a percent of the playerbase was equipped to win against an opposing group.

My god, it's as if people think they can just squeeze their eyes shut and shout that the downsides of FTE aren't real, as if they're monsters under the bed from when they were kids. Next up, let me predict the following argument: "aLl ThE pEoPlE wHo ArE aGaInSt FtE aRe JuSt RmT cHeAtErS!!!!!!11½"

Except your scenario is hypothetical. People who played consistently on Oakwynd have stated, repeatedly, that this wasn't an issue. People didn't spend hours hovering around groups trying to snag named mobs. Probably because one person trying to beat 6 other people tended not to go in their favor. We have moved on from hypotheticals. This has been present on a server for a year now. We know how it plays out, and this isn't it.

[/quote]My god, it's as if people think they can just squeeze their eyes shut and shout that the downsides of FTE aren't real, as if they're monsters under the bed from when they were kids. Next up, let me predict the following argument: "aLl ThE pEoPlE wHo ArE aGaInSt FtE aRe JuSt RmT cHeAtErS!!!!!!11½"[/quote]

Pretty sure they have allready made that argument multiple times lol.

They would be fools to comment one way or another. The best you will ever get from them is that they like the tool. They aren't going to paint themselves in a corner by saying they will or will not use it on every server going forward, because they may want to make a server in the future without it. They don't deal in ultimatums, no intelligent company does.

No, people didn't "spend hours hovering around groups," because that's an absurd strawman argument that has no place in a rational discussion. But some very much did make random, opportunistic attempts to snag named mobs when they saw the chance, because it took very little investment to try. You didn't have to DPS-race. You just had to hammer a hotkey for a moment, and if you didn't get it, you just move on with minimal loss of your time..

I was KSed more on Oakwynd than on any other TLP I've played on. This is because I tend to stay away from the select few camps where KSing was always a common risk, like Efreeti and certain epic drops. Outside of that, people did not generally KS before FTE. It was like a once-a-month occurrence in the remaining 99% of the game where the six-boxers didn't have an incentive to try and muscle their way in. Nobody bothered to take the time to brute-force their way into some random groups's frenzy camp to see if they could just take it over in a straight DPS race.

But on Oakwynd, more than once a week, that sort of thing happened. People would just pop by, stand around for a second, and try to snag the tag on a named mob. Often they did it just before the named mob (or its PH) was about to spawn, thanks to the fact that a certain program used by half or more of the playerbase lets you see precisely when any given mob in the zone is going to spawn.

Before FTE, KSing was only something that you even needed to think about if you were trying to camp Efreeti, Chancellor, Raster and whatever other small number of camps were often contested by the sweatlords. With FTE, KSing was something absolutely anybody could do, and it became something that took place everywhere. Lying about it doesn't change this fact.

It used to be that you needed to out-DPS a whole group in order to steal their named mob. Now you just need to tag it first, and unless that group is all frantically working in unison to compete for the first tag (which is unlikely unless you're up against some kind of guild group sitting in Discord), a single player has a relatively good chance. Often they're only up against that group's one puller, or the two or three people who have realized what's going on while the rest are hitting their vapes or whatever.

FTE brought a big paradigm change to EQ. Before, KSing was really only a viable option for people six-boxing a bunch of mages or whatever. Now it's a viable option for absolutely every player on the server who plays a class or box setup that is capable of killing a named mob. I most certainly noticed the effect this had on the way people play the game.

This is true, also they like to pretend they pay attention to what the players want but they rarely do. There are things that have been talked about for years and they have no idea.

I will play with FTE either way, and I can't wait to see you fellas in Lguk or Seb, depending on where the new server starts. I prefer no FTE, but I sure have some fun with it as well.