Someone explain to me why FTE is so hated, I don't get it.

Seeing constant threats of "I won't play the new tlp if FTE is enabled" has gotten me thinking about why it's so unpopular.

Why though. You can't dps race people anymore and instead it's FTE. Is that actually it? Is there more i'm not seeing. Cause that's a pretty silly reason to threaten to boycott a server.

I think it comes down to a few things such as no more DPS race, can't KS a mob and you have to tag it first to get it, you can't train players to get a camp among other things.

For me it is one step too far from the game I have played for the last 21 years. Waiting for mobs you can see to unlock so you can kill them, not being able to attack a mob that is attacking you, no derailing trains and saving on pull time.

I'll be interested to see how Oakwynd handles TBL though, when there is AEing mobs effecting everyone around them. Also how they handle the OOW mobs which back in the day required more than 1 group, though now it is likely they can be done with 1 good group.

To echo Waring but with more words.

It comes down to why people play Everquest when they could be doing something else or playing something else. Everquest is a different game to a lot of different people.

1) Some people like to get a group of friends together and go dungeon crawling.

2) Some people play out of habit/addiction (not me).

3) Some people play because they played when they were kids and it feels familiar.

4) Some people play because they like being forced to group with real people and that creates a space where you can talk to and meet new people who will grow into friends that you'll have for years. I've managed to stay in contact with several people from TLPs.

5) Some people play because due to the mechanics of Everquest, during early expansions there are indirect PVP opportunities, like KSing, training, and bogarting mobs.

6) this isn't a separate group -- I just wanted to point out that you can be a member of more than one group or different groups at different times or on different characters. Being a member of group 1 doesn't mean you're not also a 3 and a 5.

If you are the kind of player who belongs only to the first 4 groups, FTE doesn't really change how you play the game all that much. When you log in for the night, you're probably expecting to PUG an exp or item camp or you're going to pop the AoC at 7pm and raid until 10pm.

But if you're in the 5th group you're logging in expecting (or hoping) to contest someone for something. Rather than behave prosocially when you see a group of players minding their own business killing PHs and Named for loot and glory, your idea of fun may be to try and take the mobs they've been waiting for. You don't just want the mob/camp/loot, you want to take it from them. It's better because you've deprived someone else of their chance to have it. If the person you've DPS raced/trained/else was of a similar or compatible mind, they may consent to that interaction and may even see it as part of the game. If you're not, that type of behavior quickly turns a fun night into one filled with frustration (which for a certain subset of 5th groupers, is the best part).

Its this subset of 5th groupers that don't like FTE the most. FTE makes it easier for people who just want to play Everquest to do so without having to deal with the antisocial portion of 5th groupers. It doesn't fix all of the problems and its still possible for some antisocial 5th grouper to be a jerk and negatively impact your play, but its harder for them and therefore it happens less.

The easy methods of screwing with non-consenting players are gone. You can't just roll up and DPS race someone easily. You can't tag a mob out of someone else's pull as easily. You can't train people as easily. You can't just charm a named mob someone else is killing and just run off with it.

I'm sure someone will come in and say how all of that is still possible, but the fact remains that there's just sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much less of it. FTE makes it hard.

Yinla explains it from a real player's perspective.

Not some "I'm afraid of a" phantom hypothetical trainer perspective.

If FTE is so desirable it will succeed on it's own merits.

The real question is, why do you care?

What difference is it to you if people like or dislike FTE.

Do you think this thread will help ensure it goes on every server in the future?

If there are people who think it makes mobs act stupid, does their opinion matter to you really?

If you have your server and they have theirs, what does it matter?

a real players perspective? they aren't sure how to kill a mob that requires more than a group because of FTE?

Who are you again? I'm drawing a blank.

I'm quite familiar with Yinla, and her playing EQ for real bro.

People tend to dislike things irrationally without merit because it's not the established norm. They'd rather just do things the way it always was just because. Same as people repeating the same 4 eras on a yearly cycle instead of playing objectively better content later in the game.

somehow eliciting an unironic "i've never even heard of you" response feels like a win

i'm confident there's a lot of overlap of people who want to be a "big deal" in EQ and don't like FTE

A big deal in EQ?

What is that?

Like your name is all over the game?

The other threads have already explained my position fully. I think it harms things that it does not need to. I think OW raid mobs should be exempt and that you should be able to opt your friends and alts out of it. Otherwise I dont care too much, although I dont think its needed at all and takes away from the game.

Because FTE solves nothing - it just moves the bar. Example: someone can move into the area you've been clearing and now, when the named pops, instead of trying to steal it from you by out dpsing you, they just have to tag it first. I'd much rather the original design where I still have a chance than the FTE one.

I addressed this argument in several other posts. The fact that it can happen isn't relevant. It didn't happen on Oakwynd, which proved FTE worked at avoiding antisocial behavior. You don't need to make it impossible, you just have to take away the easy methods. I leveled like half a dozen characters to 60 over 3 expansions on oakwynd and I never died in a train and I count on one hand the number of times I got KSed. It was just easier to go somewhere else than try and bully someone out of a camp/snipe their named

You do have a chance. You tag it first. Not that complicated. Oakwynd has had the least drama from players vs players than any server I've ever played on. People even purposely tried to make FTE fail and be miserable, and it was still better than before.

Exactly this. Oakwynd and interacting with other groups was almost........pleasant. At least compared to previous servers.

+1 Pro FTE.

The above reasons are only a sliver of the advantages of FTE , there not even considering other social aspects including content.

I used zones that are regarded as train fests and it was a enjoyable experience Ie MMC because people where unable to train the zone intentionally.

Well ok. I would argue that group 5 are sociopaths that shouldn't be catered to in any way.

How would an AEing mob be an issue? I try not to stand in other people's mob's AEs on any server. And the OOW mobs that take more than one group? Also not sure how that would be an issues at all. Lots of mobs in literally every expansion require more than one group to kill them.

It's funny how this thread starts with the OP saying straight out what they don't understand.

People come and explain their opinion.

Whatever opinion you may have about it there is no reason to accuse others of being the toxic players everyone hates.

Once every server has FTE, those 'toxics' will have nowhere else to go, by the toxic fear philosophy.

I'm pretty sure these forum regulars are not the toxic droids you're looking for.

People just assume I'm constantly training people and KS'n people for fun just because I think FTE goes overboard and can be fixed. Or that maybe it shouldnt be on every single server.