The case still stands by what Elabone said. Everyone gets out dps'd by Mage and Necro pets in group targets besides monk and wiz
Just so we're clear then. Which are the classes where DPS is their niche? Oh right Wizard, Monk, ROGUE....
I mean.. this argument is easily settled by running Old Man McKenzie quest. I've solo'd these as an Enchanter, Magician, Necromancer. But try doing one as a rogue, the discrepancies are blatant. Period. Honestly, seeing people even arguing classic rogue is fine blows my mind.
I'd agree. Rogue isn't 'fine' compared to other classes in early TLP. They are 'ok', but they aren't where they should be relatively speaking, and it's mainly cause of fist ratio and pets. If these 2 things were fixed for TLP's then it would be a LOT better.
Noone is saying classic rogue is fine. People are literally claiming rogues are useless until TSS. Rogues are FINE in kunark and beyond. I just dont think there needs to be changes made to the game for 1 2 month period. Thats all. I agree rogues blow during classic. But thats where our opinions differ. After classic i think they are fine.
Rogues are really not "Fine" but more of meh... OK by Luclin. For them to even reach that standard they have to check some boxes such as have epic, specific very specific AA's, and since there is usually a low population of rogues loot the scraps from raids. Warriors are really the only class that shares the same growing pains as a rogue but their power curve and character growth benefits way more from scraps than a rogue does. The way rogues work and since they are a pure DPS if everyone is doing their job correctly in group or raid they should excel. They do not, now balance is tricky but they are absolutely horrible at soloing and performing anything outside a group meaning questing. Sorry just because I out level the content and can solo level 30 quest at max level in a reasonable amount of time is not a carrot. Majority of those quest mean nothing for character growth. A flood of complaints came about rogues pick pocketing. I found that laughable as if they are snatching your epics. Yes, gems they are snatching those precious gems. Yet, they cannot solo efficiently to earn plat in other means. So they now added a message to show they are pick pocketing in which they need to for questing. So even more ways to shun a class that needs to group... Poisons, are lack luster. By the end you will use a couple different poisons. The rest are just to level up the profession. I believe from playing one they were to assist a rogue to get into groups that were needing a specific skill in which they could do by weapon swap or poisons. I do not believe it has ever worked. Anyways as many other have over the years a way to fix rogues is difficult. Well we do not want them the number one in anything that is fine but could they at least raise their ability to solo? Well it is a group oriented game... OK, lets raise their DPS to the levels of the pure class? You cannot be number one! Ok, can they at least bring more utility to a group? Roll, this or that if you need that! It has bluntly came to someone needs to be last which is fine but in all aspects? Rogues are not last in this or that! Actually they are cause they are easily replaceable. Yea, but that loot that no one has a rogue for just rots. You can gear up sooooo quickly. Yea but who cares if other classes in average gear can do it all? When I played my rogue, I could not stand a couple aspect the many hours of LFG, Unable to do things outside a group, and in raids how punishing it was being a rogue from someone accidentally pulling agro and not even you. Dying from riposte or what not.
Way to backpedal from what you actually said. "Velious/Kunark puts them ahead of rangers at least. So they move up from worst class to 2nd worst." Now you're pretending you're only talking about DPS, which still makes you wrong because neither of those classes are close to worst or second worst
Posted in the other thread but I'll repeat my 2c here and say early TLP rogues definitely need some love. Until you can afford a PL in Luclin or POP, you should just roll a warrior if you want to play a rogue.
If their programmers cannot even configure, which is what modding technically is there is no hope for EQ3.
Lots of bad information in this thread, a 29 mage pet gets outdpsed by a lvl 29 paladin with ghoulbane let alone a real class, so its a bad measuring stick for any argument. However, Rogues are fine, in classic they suffer due to loot tables (so does every class in some respect), when they get there 1.0 (which is objectively the easiest to obtain) they can challenge for the parse from there on until around Underfoot where unfortunately they fall off a cliff
